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Comment by mkl95 | Hacker News Reader

There's nothing surprising about it. There is at least one recent, well documented case of mass emigration due to the economic collapse of an authoritarian regime. Millions of people have left Venezuela since the late 2000s [1]. Considering Russia is barely richer than Spain whilst having 3x the population and the fact it's about to get much worse, I would expect millions of Russians to leave in the next few years.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_in_Venezuela

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Spain is a very rich country though, 10th in the world by total wealth. What you're comparing is the current GDP, which is a different thing than being rich, it's production. In Spain production may be lower but still people enjoy a great quality of life because they are living of the wealth generated before, i.e. everything is extremely cheap including real estate.

>wealth generated before

Yeah, "generated".

"Generated"... by Africans and South Americans. But yesterday it was OK to do what Russia is doing now.

Ah yes generated at least 200 years ago and were absolutely untouched during a Civil War and 2 worl wars destroying Europe

Spain was practically untouched during both World Wars. Surprisingly - for an European country - it was one of the few states to remain neutral during the conflicts. [1] [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_during_World_War_II

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_during_World_War_I

You are right. Spain basically destroyed itself between the late 19th century and the early to mid 20th century.

> everything is extremely cheap including real estate

If you have the salary of SV sure, the real state is cheap but for those working and living in Spain it is not

You can buy a nice flat in some areas for less than 20k € so I'd say it's quite cheap, even for locals. There's a website that pairs local salaries to time it takes to buy property and in Spain is quite low.

Rent for a room in a city centre goes from 200€, nice flat 500€ big one 600€

Regarding salaries, it's smaller number of currency units but things are very cheap as well, really great place for investing. Infrastructure is better than in central Europe (was there recently for over a month) so it has everything to grow, and it most definitely will.

> Rent for a room in a city centre goes from 200€, nice flat 500€ big one 600€

Rent for a room in the centre of Barcelona or Madrid goes from €500, nice flat €900 big one €1200+.

If you work in tech, there's a high probability that you work for a company with their HQ there. If you combine that with the fact remote work culture is still settling in, there's also a high chance that you also live there.

> You can buy a nice flat in some areas for less than 20k

A nice flat in the outskirts of Barcelona or Madrid should be about 200-250k. As you get closer to the centre, prices approach 400k, even 500k+ in some areas.

Other than that, Northern Spain has some infamously expensive areas that are comparable to Barcelona and Madrid. Same thing happens in the Costa Brava, some areas in the outskirts of Madrid, and some areas in Southern Spain.

Also, only 11% of the workforce work under what locals call an "indefinite contract". Banks only trust that 11%.

Spain is ideal for a digital nomad that is willing to live in some run down area or what people call "Empty Spain". And even in those places, finding a nice flat for €20k sounds like a pipe dream.

Honestly, if I were a digital nomad from some European country and I wanted to move to Spain, I would just move to Andorra. Spain is a short drive away and taxes are way lower.

Of course it depends of the city, bigger cities, right in the middle it can go up to 2-3k€ a month. I'm not saying right in the middle but close to the centre, maybe 10 min by metro. Also Spain is not Barcelona and Madrid.

You're saying a lot of wrong things, for starters

> Spain is ideal for a digital nomad that is willing to live in some run down area or what people call "Empty Spain".

As a tech worker, and digital nomad myself, I don't live in any "Run down area", I have a high german salary and chose to live here in Spain because quality of life is much higher than in central Europe, including Baden-Württemberg, Czechia, Poland, etc.

With this salary I've bought many properties in Spain, I can literally buy a flat near the beach for less than 20k euros. Stop spreading lies about Spain.

Just a quick look: https://www.idealista.com/venta-viviendas/alicante-alacant-a... there's 491 places for sale in Alicante with price < 60k euros, I could buy 2 in 1 year, average tech worker in Alicante makes 40k+ so they can buy one in over a year.

Alicante has an awfully high unemployment rate and is widely known as a run down area -you just have to look at some of the properties you linked-, except for a few towns in the Costa Blanca.

Alicante is in no way representative of Spain. It should be very close to the bottom of the list, if not at the very bottom.

> I have a high german salary and chose to live here in Spain because quality of life is much higher than in central Europe, including Baden-Württemberg, Czechia, Poland, etc.

Guess what, most people working in Spain don't have "high German salaries".

Also, the average engineer in Alicante makes way less than 40k. Actually, there's a ~20% chance that they don't have a job in the first place. The average senior engineer makes about 45k in the most expensive areas of the country, before paying ~20-25% of it in taxes.

Keep in mind that 43% of Spaniards save less than €100 a month, with 23% of the population not saving any money at all. https://www.europapress.es/economia/finanzas-00340/noticia-4...

All lies and false information, you sound like the typical unidas podemos or PSOE supporter.

I've been many times to Alicante and could work there in an office for 400€/day if I wanted, stop spreading lies.

This is one of the craziest things I've ever read.

How can you say that Alicante is run down? What are you smoking? Putin has a mansion in a nearby neighbourhood worth millions and goes there regularly, huge companies have large facilities in Alicante along with the best comsetic surgery clinics in the world. A very rich and developed area in Europe full of northerners, please don't talk about things you don't know or understand. It's incredible how spoiled some people can be in Europe, you have no idea buddy.

Seems like now could be a smart time to get back to Venezuela. Where are these 10M barrels going to come from for the west? And now you have Saudis not entirely taking USA's side in this conflict.

You'd have to capture Venezuela and install American or Saudi oil companies to make it work. The Venezuelan petro infrastructure is in complete disarray. Active rigs in that country hit zero and production was near zero at the end of 2020.

Anyway, pumping out Venezuela is the worst idea imaginable. That carbon needs to stay in the ground. If you want to stick it to the Russians, deploy a national workforce installing solar panels all over Germany and Italy, then dynamite the Russian gas pipelines.

Dynamite them now. You could heat all of Europe with a yatch tax

And consider throughout history what people have done when their government got more authoritarian and their nation's economy collapsed. Or just when the latter happens.

I am quite intrigued at those who doubt this of all stories.

Agreed.

tiny nitpick: immigration -> emigration

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