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Comment by logifail | Hacker News Reader

> the freaking EU of all organizations is saying they'll send them fighter jets

For clarity, and despite Macron's urgings, the EU doesn't yet have an air force it can send anywhere.

It does have the Common Security and Defence Policy[0]:

"The CSDP involves the deployment of military or civilian missions to preserve peace, prevent conflict and strengthen international security in accordance with the principles of the United Nations Charter. Military missions are carried out by EU forces established with secondments from the member states' armed forces"

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Po...

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They appear to have said [1] they'll supply (finance + deliver) aircraft (which presumably the Ukrainians have the expertise to operate, per [2]). They have not said they'll send in an air force (operated by non-Ukrainians), which as you point out, they don't yet have.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-close-airspace-russi...

[2] https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-je...

There are remaining MiG operators in Central and Eastern Europe. These planes have been converted to use NATO armament and they're being phased out anyway. Ukrainian pilots are already accustomed to using them. The EU could use resilience funds to buy F16, F35 or Saab Gripens for the former MiG operators. Some of these are already F16 or Saab Gripen operators.

Ukraine has no access to the air at this point anyways. I don't see this as plausible. No airports are secured, and Russia dominates the airspace right now. Even if NATO sends planes, how will they be transported there? And how will they establish a base of operations?

Depending on the model of Mig, they could operate from a hastily constructed dirt air strip. US-made fighters not so much. Not sure about Gripens.

I can't speak to the state of Russian air superiority at the moment, it could be that there are gaps/The Ukrainian air force hasn't been destroyed yet.

But even if as an idea it doesn't work out, the fact that the "peace project" organization, whose members visibly wept over the UK leaving, is coordinating the delivery of military hardware to a non-member for use in an active conflict should speak volumes about the level of support Ukraine is getting.

Gripens are designed to be able to operate from roads and Sweden often does practice operations doing just that.

My guess is they'll initially sortie from Romania, maintaining IFF silence for plausible deniability, while a coordinated strike with man-and-vehicle portable SAMs retakes enough airspace in the western part of the country to support further operations.

> plausible deniability

You're proposing military aircraft owned by an EU member state should launch from their airfields in EU, sneak over the border and land in Ukraine, refuel and (re-)arm - and perhaps get a quick paint job too and have the aviation equivalent of their serial numbers filed off - then start attacking Russian forces in Ukraine, and our plan would be basically to hope that the enemy with apparently complete air superiority plus satellite capability might not notice?

I'm firmly anti-war; that plan sounds like a great way to drag the EU and/or NATO straight into this one.

On the other hand, we're already supplying Ukraine with many types of weapons. Airplanes are just one more type.

That would definitely drag NATO into the war, so no.

That explains a lot.

https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-je...

It was the EU "High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy" speaking for various EU members.

Poland, Slovakia and Bulgaria will give them MiGs

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