Just to make clear: I'm definitely not in favor of the current invasion.
"whatabout" doesn't justify anything else. But I'll play.
In both cases, there was a broad coalition. Troops didn't start an invasion without clear demands. Russia lied about their demands, said their troop deployment was for exercises. Until recently they maintained they weren't going to invade.
Say what you want about Iraq and Afghanistan, but the intention of the coalition forces was clear.
It's also worth noting that:
(1) Afghanistan was self-defense, perhaps an overreaction (that can be debated).
(2) An American president actually admitted that Iraq was a mistake. Did it take 6 years for Obama to get elected.
To be clear I don't think Iraq or Afghanistan wars were completely justified (or good ideas). But there was plenty of diplomacy around it (all diplomatic attempts by Russia in Ukraine have been disingenuous). Russia didn't threaten the coalition forces with sanctions prior to the invasion.
> There's a lot of comments about how outrageous the lack of a harsher response (in particular the lack of military action) from the west/NATO/USA is.
There would probably be more outrage, if there was an intervention :D
I'm certainly not arguing that it would wise for NATO to intervene.
Also so what if they admitted it was a mistake in iraq? If putin admits ukraine was a mistake in 5 years is everything okay and we can just not be allowed to bring that event up again? The complete destabilization that war caused isn't just something you can dismiss because they said oopsie (not even apologizing). Calling the american diplomacy efforts in 2003 not disingenuous is just completely flat out wrong. It was probably even more dishonest than what putin has been doing, with fake leaks to the media and moving goalposts to assure an invasion will inevitably happen. Bush wanted the iraq war and to topple saddam no matter what concession he was willing to make
Again, no need to even compare the events and I get you don't fully approve of the wars but the justification for the 2 wars is swinging way way too far into american apologism.
Aha, so Bin Laden and Al Qaeda weren't hiding in Afghanistan?
(1) according to Russia (Russian perspective) I'm pretty sure the US (or for that matter Ukraine) is harboring terrorists as well. Now, I'm not fully knowledgeable about all the details in Afghanistan, and sure, the Talibans doesn't seem to be optimal (but neither does the Ukrainian leadership/political situation - it's one of the most corrupt country in Europe?), but aren't there a lot of similarities? What are the significant differences that justified killing (directly or indirectly) many tens of thousands and messing up a country for 20 years, that still makes it valid to have outrage for the current situation? I'm genuinely curious!
(2) I think the other comment put it best. Bush and co lied about the situation (there being WMDs). And is it OK now if Putin regrets his invasion 2028?
PS You do have a good point about there probably being more outrage if there was an intervention!
We are more enlightened than we were 20 years ago. Just to mention one. (Also lots of people weren't in favor of Iraq of Afghanistan)
More importantly even if the US did overreact or oversell the justification for it's wars. The US didn't act alone, nor were they anywhere near as dishonest as Russia have been.
It appears to me that Russia purposefully made diplomatic solutions impossible.
> (2) I think the other comment put it best. Bush and co lied about the situation (there being WMDs). And is it OK now if Putin regrets his invasion 2028?
He had 8 years to regret the invasion he made in 2014, right?
But no -- it's not okay now.. but if in 8 years Putin comes out says it was wrong, I'll give him more credibility afterwards.
Yes, that's what that's called.