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Comment by ne0flex | Hacker News Reader

Why is it odd? He's in Russia. Pretty sure he knows that if he speaks out about it, he'll either be deported or arrested.

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Exactly. Yet notice who he's focused his criticism on all these years. I've never heard him acknowledge the irony of how he's living.

and now the real question becomes, does that change anything relating to the truthfulness of his past positions?

no, no it doesn't. if logic is valid, it doesn't matter who says it.

No, his past actions were a great service to the world.

At the same time, his current behaviour means I no longer find him to be a meaningful source of commentary. He called Trudeau "tyrannical and obscene" -- no followup comment when, days later, Trudeau revoked the Emergencies Act. He mocked the world for trusting US intelligence that Russia was going to invade Ukraine -- no followup comment when Russia then committed a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

Again, what he did in the past: tremendous service. What he seems capable of doing today: not useful to me.

> He called Trudeau "tyrannical and obscene" -- no followup comment when, days later, Trudeau revoked the Emergencies Act

Trudeau revoked use of the Emergencies Act after using it for 10 days to destroy a protest. It's hard to characterise that any other way.

People are using the revocation as justification for enacting it in the first place.

Honestly where could he go? I suspect he's not there because he's a Russian apologist.

> the irony of how he's living

get your head out of the state influenced media, this is such a ridiculous position to have. The guy had his passport cancelled and is stuck there. What the fuck is he supposed to do?

From the government's perspective he was fleeing the US with stolen classified information. What do you think the government should do?

OP made out like snowden is making a choice to be in Russia. He’s not. And if the US government would have wanted to resolve this situation they could have over the years. They’ve chosen to basically exile Snowden.

Snowden wanted to go to Ecuador. It’s ridiculous to suggest he’s made a choice to be in Russia or support Russia.

Then again that’s literally what MSNBC, CNN and probably Fox have been saying for almost 10 years to I’m not surprised many have been brainwashed.

> And if the US government would have wanted to resolve this situation they could have over the years.

What should the US Government do to resolve the situation?

Make whistleblowing about illegal activity by government not a crime?

Trump could have pardoned him?

Offer him a plea deal to return home, plead guilty and serve some time?

> Make whistleblowing about illegal activity by government not a crime?

It's not a crime.

> Offer him a plea deal to return home, plead guilty and serve some time?

I actually like this one. That's fair.

Just because he doesn't have much of a choice doesn't mean there's no irony.

He did what he had to do to find a safe heaven. Nobody could blame him for that. However, his opinion from then on has to be treated with a huge grain of salt. Russia is more than capable of using him as propaganda as condition for protecting him. Why is that difficult to accept?

> I've never heard him acknowledge the irony of how he's living.

I don't have an exact source, but I remember him saying how he didn't really want to end up in Russia, how he hasn't adapted super well to it and how he would like to go back to the US if allowed a fair trial.

His original goal was to go to Ecuador for asylum. His passport was revoked while he was waiting for his connecting flight in Russia, ending up with him stuck there[0]. His end-goal was never to end up in Russia.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Russia

Yes, but now he's silent about what goes on in his new home, regardless how he got there. He could at least acknowledge the irony. And maybe note that now he really is in a place where human rights are minimal.

I am fairly certain that he is fully aware of the irony. However he's not in any position to criticize Russia because it will lead to immediate deportation.

>Yes, but now he's silent about what goes on in his new home, regardless how he got there. He could at least acknowledge the irony.

He already almost martyred himself once to bring us the truth. Why are you demanding he does it again to tell us something everybody already knows?

"A fair trial". That's a loaded term.

Does he assume he shouldn't serve time for what he did? Snowden is a complicated figure because the core that the U.S. government was surveilling its own people beyond its bounds was correct.

But he did kind of leak a whole bunch of shit not related to that as well. And that ain't cool.

He kind of has to accept that he's going to go to jail and he's never going to work with sensitive information ever again.

I think by fair trial he means he doesn't want to be tried under the Espionage Act of 1917 which would allow the trial to be secretized, for the evidence to be withed from the jury etc. I'm writing the details from memory, so some might be inaccurate, but that's the gist I got.

EDIT:

Here's a bit of clarification (quick find on Google, not necessarily the most comprehensive): https://www.france24.com/en/20190916-snowden-says-he-would-r...

That's the thing, he could mean that. It's equally likely he means something else. Until he defines what "fair" means, we can't know.

I think that’s the point. He’s not very principled.

He’d be the first modern hero we’ve had if he came back and forced the government to imprison him.

It'd make very little difference for anyone else if you get yourself arrested just because. Besides, he's done his part. Why require your heroes to continue working for you after their first act of heroism? That seems unfair.

> heroes to continue working for you after their first act of heroism

This is exactly what a hero who is principled would do. This is the literal thing that separates them from regular people.

Directly antogonizing the most powerful government and spy agencies in the world in order to tell the world about their wrongdoings is enough heroism for me. I don't need him to be a martyr. If he lives out the rest of his life safely in comfort I'd say he's earned it. Demanding anyone who's done a good thing to sacrifice themselves at the alter or cease being considered good will just lead to noone doing good things.

The problem is those who consider him a hero continue to act like what he said since escaping to Russia as beacon of truth. If I had a choice I’d stay clear of current affair, because I couldn’t possibly be fair if I kept silence of what Russia has done

And gain what exactly?

You could argue that he acted on principle and went against the US govt resulting in him being "imprisoned" in Russia and unable to return home. In the end, he got nothing out of it. US gov't still conducts mass surveillance and your average consumer doesn't have much qualms about giving their data to corporations that can then sell it to the gov't.

There was a segment where John Oliver met with Snowden in Russia. Oliver went around in NYC asking people about Snowden and most people didn't even recognize his name. Tbh, I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to go to prison just to be a hero to a bunch of random people that didn't care the first time around.

He’d be a martyr. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn’t.

> I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to go to prison just to be a hero to a bunch of random people that didn't care the first time around.

Yes. I don’t either. But this is why he isn’t principled.

Seems like he just doesn't adhere to the principles you'd like him to. That doesn't mean he has none.

This is weird trolling. You bring up a completely uninvolved, unrelated person and attack them for doing nothing. Maybe Dang will kill off this whole thread for being against HN guidelines.

He's already a martyr. He's living the rest of his life in exile, under a microscope and under constant threat. The only people who would gain from him tweeting about these events are those who wish to see him harmed.

Feel free to cast the first stone after you've voluntarily submitted yourself to years of torture to defend your idealistic positions.

I think most people have enough sense to not do a vast, braindead document dump of classified material, and thus are able to escape all the ridiculous moral grandstanding that comes afterward as you try to appease your custodians.

I'm not sure why you expect some guy to give up more of his life for principles. I think he's done enough and having to flee your country for fear of reprisals is already no picnic. The people who have power to actually force change w.r.t. Putin are our western elected leaders and we should be holding them to account.

> He’d be the first modern hero we’ve had if he came back and forced the government to imprison him.

What about Chelsea Manning and Reality Winner? The fact that you forgot about them already suggests that such an act from Snowden would be ultimately meaningless.

> I think that’s the point. He’s not very principled.

That... is a statement.

So, the guy that openly flouts decades of prison time and enemy-of-the-state status (from the richest first-world country with a nearly unlimited budget for tracking enemies down) to give the world definitive proof of American fuckery for the sake of morals and public good is "not very principled"?

> He’d be the first modern hero

No, he'd be yet another modern martyr.

He's under no obligation to continue crusading. He has already done so much good, let the man retire.

What is it with people expecting their idols to come out and openly crusade for the opinions they want to hear? Do you need a feeling of reassurance or something? Let your opinions stand on their own, you don't need a celebrity to validate them.

what do you expect him to do? You are sitting on armchair and making some petty complains? Go to Russia and be vocal and you will know the consequence. Just see Julian Assange life?

Please at least respect people who reveals the insidious evils at the cost of their freedom?

The dude exposed an attack on freedom and privacy. I ultimately respect him for that.

I do not expect him to continue to one-up himself and ruin his life more and more until he's dead, or staring at a concrete wall in solitary.

He's done a massive service to the people. Let him have at least the minimal freedom he has left.

It's time for others to carry the torch.

We can't all fight every single battle there is. And it's not unreasonable to do a cost/benefit analysis on something like this. Dude just wants to live his life, he's already sacrificed quite a bit.

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