Comment by avs733 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by avs733 | Hacker News Reader

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>Getting students (or anyone) to learn how to learn on their own is, sadly, not taught in school here (California).

This is such a fundamental point. School should be teaching you processes of learning as well as knowledge. The problem is that the poor treatment of educators results in a reversion to the minimum. If you were taught 'acquiring as many facts/much knowledge as possible is learning' then you aren't going to see/understand this as you teach.

Teachers cannot really teach something they don't understand (general statement but...largely true). The reality is that most of what you think about learning and knowledge is embedded very very early. It is also, sadly, largely driven by social class in the US. The broad term is 'hidden curriculum' and much of the work started with Jean Anyon[0]. Much of the teacher workforce comes from working class and middle class schools. Below that, you don't go to college. Above that, you have economically more successful opportunities. Those are not schools that teach a fundamental approach to learning where the process or metacognition is part of the mindset imputed as part of basic learning.

[0] https://www1.udel.edu/educ/whitson/897s05/files/hiddencurric...

This is a helpful comment, thank you. Prioritizing sociological factors in the design of educational systems seems common, but balancing the differences within an educational population with policy requirements makes it so that only some students get the resources they need.

In my life, I have been lucky to have a sticky brain, which has gotten me through for a long time. The problem is that I cannot pinpoint any significant moment in my education where some tactic or teaching influenced the way I study. I remember lectures about Cornell notes and other strategies, but I never needed them, and then once educational challenges became too great for me to handle with my habits, that's when I REALLY needed them. I've taken the project to heart and prioritize my exploration and implementation of better learning strategies. It took me years.

It's like, the world of knowledge is a huge cavern, and I adjusted and mastered navigating by touch. Once I reached a larger opening, the cave was much too large to navigate in the same way, and I found myself stuck many times. If only I had realized that by opening my eyes I would have noticed the torches lining the walls above my head. I think I would have been able to contribute much more in the time I've been around so far.

I don't feel sorry for myself. I live a good life. I have taken responsibility for my own advancement and learning. I empathize with others who struggle with what I've struggled (and continue to contend with) in terms of learning methodology. I hope that throwing my little anecdote into the mix counts as a drop in the bucket.

I have always found the focus on the sociological somewhat hollow...and I am involved in sociological research on education (engineering specifically).

The problem, and the reason for the focus, is that the sociological and the philosophical are highly correlated in education. The philosophical questions - and bringing them through from concept to practice to evaluating are hard.

You got to the edge of the cave and wanted to look around...it took you a while to notice the torches but you navigated by touch. Most people don't. They are trained out of it.

It is especially hard on the 'smart' kids (I deal with them...they are a mess). So often they are asking questions beyond what their teachers in K-12 know and can answer and it creates a void. Depending on how its handled by everyone in their adult community it can either be 'stop asking questions just get the answers right [the answers I got from the teachers texbook]' which just amplifies extrinsic motivation as the dominant mode of action and validation or it can be 'I don't know and thats amazing lets find out'.

When my partner and I started planning for kids, we talked about schools. She was surprised that I was at all pro private school, and even more surprised that I placed greater value on private school earlier rather than later in K-12. The fundamental thing is that the minds, thoughts, and ideas of those with socioeconomic privilege in this country are treated with far more respect. The educational environs that give that respect happen to be the ones that are more likely to promote deep learning, metacognition, argumentation, etc.

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