Hacker News Reader

I'd be all for stigmatization if the ranking wasn't absolutely bonkers. Between advertising and porn, advertising is worse for the collected psyche. It is a constant onslaught that tells everyone to want, and never relents. Porn can be avoided approximately 10,000 times more easily than advertising.

Porn is almost as unavoidable as ads, especially for kids. We know the average age of a boy viewing porn is 11 (1)and that virtually all of them will see porn by 15(2). Of porn viewing done by minors 22% are done by children under 10 (3). Porn has also been proven to have significantly more impact over your brain than advertising. The dopamine response to seeing porn is similar to crack (4). You can't get addicted to ads. Pornography is categorically more dangerous to society than ads, tracking, and privacy invasions.

1: https://youthfirstinc.org/pornography-viewing-starts-as-earl...

2: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1753-6405.1...

3: https://www.magonlinelibrary.com/doi/abs/10.12968/bjsn.2017....

4: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11058476/

> Of porn viewing done by minors 22% are done by children under 10 (3)

> 3: https://www.magonlinelibrary.com/doi/abs/10.12968/bjsn.2017....

I found this fairly dubious, and followed through with this and got to the study[0]. It uses [1] as its source. That source is a private antivirus company (bitdefender), and they don't quote any sources for those claims, but luckily they offer a solution:

> Use security solutions with Parental Control to watch over kids online. Features such as Bitdefender Parental Control block inappropriate content, restrict Web access between certain hours and helps parents remotely monitor their children”s online activity

I haven't followed through on the other statistics you quoted, but that seems like some major corporate BS you're basing your argument on there.

> The research was conducted by Bitdefender in September 2016 covering 706 users of Bitdefender's security solutions.

Oh okay, that about settles it.

[0] https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.12968/bjsn.2017.12.7.3...

[1] https://www.bitdefender.com/blog/hotforsecurity/one-in-10-vi...

> Porn is almost as unavoidable as ads

Where are these ads? I never see pornographic ads in my daily browsing.

> The dopamine response to seeing porn is similar to crack (4).

That doesn't prove anything about harmfulness. I think it was already obvious that humans are hardwired to be attracted to sex. Nothing in these links suggests that this response creates to an addiction similar to hard drugs.

> Pornography is categorically more dangerous to society than ads, tracking, and privacy invasions.

I don't accept that based on your sources.

He was making a point about the proliferation of porn. It's not so bad if your settings turn off NSFW on various sites. However even then, it's often in your face. I won't go into details though.

Porn isn't sex. The repeated exposure to a huge volume of media can't be compared to a physical experience. It's more comparable to a drug.

The ultimate list of the effects of porn on the brain: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/relevant-research-and-articl...

"yourbrainonporn.com" is about as reliable as quoting D.A.R.E. for information on drugs. In other words, it holds literally no weight and is likely religion-driven "family values" propaganda.

Just to correct myself, the page I linked to is actually about making the case for the link between dopamine and addiction. The effect of porn on the brain is made indirectly.

The site is founded by an atheist, and looks to science for making an informed view: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/about/about-this-site/

Ah... Definitely good to call out. The domain looks like complete anti-porn religious propaganda without diving in further.

A lot of other things are also highly addictive though, like social media. So where do you draw the line? Also, why are some people so much more addicted than others?

That seems like equivocation on the word "unavoidable." There's a big difference between saying "ads are unavoidable because they are displayed on nearly every computing device you use" and "porn is unavoidable because people actively want to see it."

The age has risen since I was younger.

Porn mags where everywhere from corner stores, barber shops and some doctor offices. If you never saw porn by 8 you might be considered legally blind.

Oh wow! May i inquire about your age and location of living? That sort of view is considered wildly obsolete in my circles, so I'm curious.

Midwest US, mid 30's. This sort of view is strongly held by the intellectual and political circles I support and follow. I think it is a very insidious and corrupting addiction, and the modern incarnation of it is orders of magnitude more stimulating than in prior eras. Infinite access to a stimulus that simulates in male brains "mating" with ever varied women, which is hijacking a strong biological imperative.

As another comment mentioned a similar problem with "advertising" in general, I think sexualization and over stimulus of the population weakens people, and not to say there is some conspiracy purposefully pushing this (it may just emergent from technology and human instinct) I do think the corrupting influence weakens a population and makes them more easily dominated by strong forces... media, business, government, etc. All to say that, in terms of "what is best to cultivate a strong society and people" porn is extremely antithetical to this. A stronger society is one that would be avoiding, however necessary, consumption and production of pornography.

This presentation [0] on the physiological effects of porn consumption is very informative. Observations mirror what strong opiates do to the brain

A good overview of the public health problem of porn[1]

The psychologically destabilizing and weakening effects of porn, and how they breakdown willpower to oppose stronger forces are illustrated by the time when the Israeli military broadcast pornography onto the televisions of Palestinian residents of the besieged West Bank town of Ramallah [2]. Why would they do this if porn was good for you?

[0] "The great porn experiment | Gary Wilson | TEDxGlasgow" https://youtu.be/wSF82AwSDiU

[1] https://eppc.org/publication/a-science-based-case-for-ending...

[2] https://reason.com/2002/04/03/porn-and-politics-in-palestine...

Oh wow. I am blown away. You just threw me back some 30 years.

Let me explain. About three decades ago I was (gladly not to strongly) part of a Christian youth group. Led by honorable members of the parish. They condemned porn, Sex, condemned schools doing sex ed. The condemned viciously youth magazines doing sex ed as well (German Bravo magazine).

Kids naturally discovered their budding sexuality. Looked at porn or nudism magazines. Tried maturation (oh what a sin in the eyes of the elders). As said everything sexusl, everything bodily was tabu.

Kids, especially in the inner part of these groups with parents active in the parish were fearful. Full of shame because they felt their bodies betraying them and their faith. Felt the touch of Satan. Felt dirty and without being worthy.

You (or at least others) might get the drift.

And - more importantly - these kids (boys and girls alike) were vulnerable. And believe me - easy prey. And prey they were. The most respected members of the flock, leaders of youth groups and excursions who prayed with us and always told us that we could always come to them with any question about our faith and life in general. These were the wolves. Males as well as females. They longed for the confessions. Let the kids show what they had done. Wanted to see in detail. Some even went further. Did not constraint themselves to confessions and private shows of underage maturation.

So yeah I learned early that porn is to blame for a rotten society. Porn is the culprit. Not people.

Sorry, but what you wrote is nearly verbatim the arguments that were hammered into us.

I don't buy them. Not anymore.

Porn is not sexual, it is anti-sexual. Young adults are having less sex than prior generations. The birth rate is collapsing. To equate compulsive consumption of a synthetic substitute for real sex and the natural reason for its existence is ridiculous.

Like equating criticizing unhealthy eating of candy and junk food to an opposition to "food" would be similar.

How much sex people have is not nowadays closely-related to the birth-rate.

> Young adults are having less sex than prior generations. The birth rate is collapsing.

You say that like those are bad things.

Thank you for this! This is something that is really really important to me and my wife. We have seen some horrible consequences in our parents' generation from porn addictions. I also had an addiction to it, but thankfully I am free now. My biggest desire as a father is that my children would grow up addiction free. Boys are exposed to porn when they are simply unable to understand what it is, what sex is, and what the price of the short-term pleasure is. I know I was. I hate what happened to me, I hate what I did, but I felt like I had to do it.

The parent is quoting a short article about porn in Israel from a questionable source with a questionable amount of facts in it.

And they have been quoting it in a few threads in this conversations.

Do you remember porn mags in the corner store growing up?

Yes, they weren't a good thing but even those were taboo and fairly inaccessible to the average kid and came with a stigma for the adults buying them in public.

Do you not see how the infinite novelty of endless porn videos accessible in the palm of your hand is different than the (crude and still objectionable) magazines sold in corner stores?

I would suggest the photocopy of a crunched up semi-nude Madonna photo from the 80s caused our imagination to soak much more than what is available online.

At the time many lighters and cards had nude images. It was much more common and celebrated.

There are endless videos on any topic.

Pornography is an active good for society that affords people an easy way to enjoy themselves and live out fantasies while causing no inherent harm to anyone else. It is certainly less harmful to society than tobacco, gambling or telemarketers.

Sex is a perfectly enjoyable past-time, similar to woodworking or snowboarding, and nothing changes about its morality when you record it on a camera.

It is also worth noting that pornography has existed in essentially every human culture that has had writing or visual artistry. The noble spirit of mankind, if such a thing exists, has yet to crumble.

That's not a healthy opinion or reaction. Shaming the naked body is wrong.

It is shaming the abuse of a naked body, and the mind that goes with it. I have more respect for the beauty of the naked body than do porn producers and consumers. Real meaningful sex is respect for the naked body, porn is a poor, pathetic, addictive, mind altering and weakening synthetic substitute. Get it?

Your view seems based on over-generalization. It's fine to think "most porn is disrespectful", but that shouldn't lead you to conclude all porn should suffer from repressive laws or social norms.

"Real meaningful sex is respect for the naked body, porn is a poor, pathetic, addictive, mind altering and weakening synthetic substitute"

Isn't it fun to assemble a string of highly judgmental sounding words and tired clichés without providing any actual scientific data behind them?

yes

What do you define as porn? One person may see a yoga video and follow along and get fit another might get aroused by shapely lady instructing.

Doesn't the abuse of the innocent image happen in the minds of the users. How do you police those thoughts?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com