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Comment by TulliusCicero | Hacker News Reader

My experience was that riding on a halfway decent road bike made of aluminum was radically more enjoyable than on a Dutch-style city bike. The increase in effective speed made a huge difference even for basic commuting tasks. When we switched my son over from a crappy, heavy kids' bike, to a nice, light, aluminum one from Frog, we saw a similar change with him.

So weight and speed probably do matter, even for regular people.

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Geometry and stiffness make the biggest difference to handling with weight being of negligible benefit (on a mountain bike a bit of extra weight can actually be beneficial on jumps). You and your son were probably simply riding better designed bikes.

Weight is pretty important for kids bikes. When your kid weighs 20kg, it makes a difference if their bike weighs 12kg or 8kg.

Well, that too, but I do think the weight makes a difference for acceleration.

My current all road bicycle is built around an affordable aluminiun frame with 650b wheels and carbon fork. The only thing I'd wish for is extra rubber clearance in the front fork, as the rear is all right.

Good quality steel is quite light as well, about 2.5 kg for the frame and the fork. Add to that beefy 650b or 700c wheels with 42..50 mm wide rubber and you've got a bike which one can confortably ride on most roads, paved or otherwise. The new gravel bike trend is quite in line with this. As long as it's not an UCI approved discipline and the manufacturers start making only race bikes again, one can probably find a decent endurance or adventure model with more relaxed geometry and actual utility. I like the current Breezer Bikes lineup a lot, especially the Doppler. They're made of regular 4130 chromoly, not Reynolds 725 or other heat treated steel types, but they're affordable, very durable and also carbon fork compatible. Joe Breeze is also very experienced designer and builder, being one of the original mountain bike pioneers. If you want a more nimble bike look for a Ritchey or the more premium QBS brands like Salsa or All City.

Dutch style bikes are okay in flat countries like the Netherlands and Denmark, but I'd get a lighter trekking bike regardless.

Dutch-style bikes are not only very heavy, but the upright position is also not good for speed. They have other benefits though, the posture gives a better overview of traffic, lowers the chance of back pain and this type of bike generally requires less maintenance (e.g. my wife's Dutch bike only needed one repair in the 10 years she has had it, while it has been parked outside in the rain/snow some years, when we didn't have a garage).

That said, Dutch-style bikes are not for me. I like trekking bikes, which often have a good trade-off between speed, weight, stability, and lower maintenance than most road bikes (especially with belt drive and a gear hub). I also have a hybrid bike, which is lighter and faster, but I don't really like the amount of maintenance it requires (regularly degreasing the derailleur) and it feels less stable than a trekking bike.

> lowers the chance of back pain

my (limited) experience is the opposite. I have more back pain after a ride with my upright, dutch-style ride, than on my sporty trekking bike, that has a more inclined position and I ride comfortably for longer and on more irregular terrain. Maybe the vertical position is worse to absorb road vibrations?

Maybe the vertical position is worse to absorb road vibrations?

Could be. My point of reference is The Netherlands, where we have good cycling infrastructure and the roads are typically very smooth.

Yeah, I wonder what kind of back pain is that. On a dutchie your weight goes right onto your lower back (just like when sitting down), and it's the lower back what you use for your pedal strokes. Not great for extended periods of time.

On a trekking bike your weight is more distributed, since your torso is sort of laying down.

In my experience: It's more likely to be some detail about your two positions than the coarse category.

In my case, a change of saddle made a great difference. The two saddles weren't particularly different in price or overall look, but one happened to fit my body much better than the other. Luck.

You are correct the upright position on a city bike is harder on the spine! That is why upright bicycles usually have a real mattress sprung saddle not just a piece of cheap plastic or carbon!

You don't ride a Dutch bike to go fast, you ride it to get from A to B, optionally with three kids and a week's groceries loaded on it.

I did that on a trekking bike (admittedly with one kid). I must be Dutch ;).

Though, if I could go back a few years in time, I would just buy something like an Urban Arrow. We had one last holiday and they are awesome for transporting kids + groceries.

I do that. Two kids, not three. And I appreciate that the bike is light.

It doesn't make much sense, in a way: If I have a trailer and 150-200kg of total weight (and I have as much every couple of weeks), why should 5kg more or less matter? But it matters: The bike feels better when it's not that heavily loaded, ie. most of the time.

What matters most of the time, matters.

Definitely. With a kid on the back a bike has to be sturdy first and foremost. It's not a slow bike, but it has just three speeds (start-from-standing, normal, downhill/wind-in-the-back).

Horses for courses. If you are riding around town in the Netherlands a Durch bike might be more fun due to the lower average speed, better bike infrastructure and having loads of other cyclists to look out for. In London a single speed similar to a track bike is probably best because you need to go fast all the time but don’t often need to worry about hills, in San Fran get an e-bike, in Sydney just get a cab so you aren’t vehicular homicided by a bogun

Seconded. You can go further and/or faster with a lighter bike, making it more practical and enjoyable. You get to see more and going fast is fun!

Little pit stops are less tiring as well. Like if you have to quickly unload or load from a bus or car, get over a fence, etc. A lighter bike makes it feel like less momentum is lost in those moments.

Yes, these are the recommendations of what is known as a retro-grouch in cycling circles and should be taken with a pinch of salt TBH.

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