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Comment by beaconstudios | Hacker News Reader

This looks pretty cool but I've always thought if Dune got a 4X treatment it should get a full galactic setting, not just Arrakis. After all, only a fraction of the first book is really set on Arrakis* (spoilers) and so much of the politics that makes the series interesting happens off-world.

Nonetheless, I'm excited about the prospect of a new Dune strategy game.

* the collapse of House Atreides, Paul's exodus and the Fremen uprising

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Dune did get the 4X treatment (well 1992 4x)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(video_game)

I've been waiting for this remake. This was one of my favorites back in the day.

It's a brilliant game. The Amiga soundtrack is still one of the best out there.

The Dune-themed RTS games from Westwood were cool too.

Technically it didn't, it was more of an RTS game while 4X tends to be more complex and last longer, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X#Complexity

Although it was indeed a great game and am also looking forward to see how this turns out.

> it was more of an RTS game

I think you mean the other classic Dune game, which was an RTS. This Dune game the parent comment refers to was a mix between realtime simulation, RPG and point-and-click adventure. You had to converse with family members, travel to Fremen Sietches, etc.

I agree neither game was 4X, though.

Indeed, I stand corrected. Also, TIL that Dune and Dune II were both released in the same year (1992) by two different studios with different genres, with the latter eclipsing the former, despite the former apparently being quite good for what it aimed to be.

Both studios were operating under different parts of Virgin.

Virgin Interactive owned Cryo, commissioned Dune, then later cancelled it. Virgin Entertainment kept funding the project, and Cryo kept working on it. Virgin Games engaged Westwood in the states, and the two projects continued in parallel. Don't adjust your set, there really is three different Virgins in the picture.

When they figured out they'd paid for & delivered on the game they though they cancelled, they just went ahead and released both. It's a good part of why Westwood's very next step was to get off the Dune IP (the other part being the cost).

I recently saw a retro (PICO-8) demake of the 1992 game: https://liquidream.itch.io/undune2

Hey, it's a big fraction of the first book :p

But yeah, space operas deserve the whole space in 4X games. Maybe a mix of king of the hill and 4X, with arakis in the center would also be cool to explore (no idea if it would work). Or a 4X with both planetary (arakis) and interplanetary layers (other planets). With different units, tech trees, unique resources to both layers... Who knows what could work.

There's actually an awful lot of conversations going on in the background of the first book - loads between House Harkonnen, conversations between Lady Jessica and the Reverend Mother, and with Leto and his entourage. There's also a ton of in-Sietch conversations between the members of Sietch Tabr. The warfare on Arrakis doesn't feature all that much compared to culture and politics!

I do think there's a lot of space to explore (pun not intended) with 4X games - "conquer everything with guns" is pretty overdone by this point. I'm really interested in what games can do outside of violence where the options haven't been explored as much.

Only a handful of other worlds are described beyond a very rudimentary amount of detail though, no? So there would have to be an extreme amount of extrapolating.

There's the Dune Encyclopedia you could reference, that collates a lot of the worldbuilding notes that Frank Herbert created.

found here https://archive.org/details/dune-encyclopedia-the-complete-a...

The Dune Encyclopedia was not based on any inside information from Frank Herbert. It was essentially an officially licensed fanwork -- much of the information in the Encyclopedia was wild speculation on the part of the authors.

Oh, I did not know this - thanks for the correction. I remember being told that it was compiled from his notes but I guess that was mistaken.

> I remember being told that it was compiled from his notes but I guess that was mistaken.

You may be confusing the Dune Encyclopedia with Brian Herbert's novels, which he claims are based on his father's notes (but probably aren't).

Frank Herbert actually wrote a foreword to the Dune Encyclopedia, in which he noted that:

"I must confess that I found it fascinating to re-enter here some of the sources on which the Chronicles are built. As the first 'Dune fan,' I give this encyclopedia my delighted approval, although I hold my own counsel on some of the issues still to be explored as the Chronicles unfold."

It's very possible - in fact that Brian Herbert "fact" does ring a bell. Very unlikely to be true, given his books go off on a totally different, more Warhammer 40K-like direction.

That's basically the opposite of a problem. Star Wars was able to grew into the ultimate franchise starting with just a desert, a forest, a swamp, a cloud city, and a space station.

Whoever [0] has the rights to Dune should be a good shepherd, announce a contest for new stories set in the Dune universe.

[0] Brian Herbert. Maybe finally he can let go of his ambition to finish Dune. Or maybe he meant it in the mortal kombat sense?

Didn't he "complete" the original series? Isn't that what Sandworms of Dune was? (Though he seems to keep mining side stories out the wazoo)

I thought the majority of old school fans hated the BH/KJA sequels?

They did. Dune 7 come out as Hunters of Dune in 2006.

It's ... ok. (No, it's really not, but no point in dwelling on it. It's just not the same Dune. Frank wrote each book because he had very specific ideas, experiences, concepts, thoughts, problems in his mind. Brian wrote it to "finish" the saga. I very much recommend this amazing talk about the context of the original books: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWDCgKdmly4 ... and I think there's simply no point in "finishing" Dune, because it's like StarWars or StarTrek, there's no end to it. Just as there's always a new/old/forgotten/prodigal Skywalker, there's always an Atreides somewhere :))

>announce a contest

Oh great! I've been looking for the opportunity to name a planet/city in a new world Boaty McBoatface!

A galactic scaled version of Crusader Kings would probably do the best job of simulating the focus of the books. It would need a pretty deep new negotiation/trade discussion mechanic though.

Between Stellaris and Endless Space, I'm not sure how much creativity would be available to a new space-based 4X game. Spice Wars is interesting to me because the setting and mechanics look pretty novel for a genre that can admittedly get samey.

Well I don't know about Endless Space but Stellaris is very focused on exploration and economic growth. I think that a good thematic Dune treatment would be well served by focusing on politics and plotting - after all, the book is much more about courtly intrigue than space warfare.

Indeed. Similarly to how a game like Crusader Kings or Europa Universalis is great partly because of the lack of exploration.

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