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Comment by hugh3 | Hacker News Reader

I assume there was some context in previous posts in this series, but I have no idea what's going on here.

Why are these guys trying to build a pen? What's a "minimal" pen? What's wrong with a fifty-cent Bic?

It is a pen snob thing. Apparently, there's these Pilot G-Tec-C gel roller ball pens that write really well and are available in really fine points (down to 0.25mm). The pens themselves are cheap plastic and are also not available in most retail places in the US. So they engineered a pen casing that they felt addressed these shortcomings (well... still not available in US retail stores) and that fits these G-Tec-C refills.

You don't have to be a pen snob to appreciate how much nicer a good gel pen (and they don't have to be expensive, there are great ones for $2 or so) writes than a Bic. Really, just try one...it's a night and day difference. Darker, more consistent line, less pressure needed to write, which means you can write longer without your hand tiring, ink that is more permanent and less likely to smear, etc.

BTW, disclaimer...I AM a pen snob. I have a 25-year-old Montblanc on my desk.

I don't know, I've heard the same for so many pens in my life and I just can't get rid of my bic... I do everything with it, I even draw with my bic and it looks better than with a lot of other kind of pen to me.

I have been known to be particular about my writing implements (though cheap netbooks now mean that hand writing more than the shortest of notes is now increasingly redundant for me) but, in all honesty, I've never found a device I prefer writing with to a mechanical pencil. A much nicer feel for me than any pen I've tried, never leaks because there's no liquid to leak and frankly the cheap disposable ones are almost as good as any more expensive model.

Pencils rock.

I have met a couple 'pen snobs' but I'm not sure the Hi-Tec-C falls into their category.

I write very small and the Hi-Tec-C's three or four tip sizes made it a good choice. The 0.25mm tip is insanely tiny and I actually had to kick-up one size to the 0.3mm.

They're relatively easy to find if you know where to look. I think the last time I purchased any, I found them online at JetPens.

I don't know why you need a $99 pen body. Pentel sells a slim, metal pen body that cures everything these guys are going after. Their only complaint may be that it's not 'substantial enough' in the writer's hand.

I'm always skeptical of the kind of snob who claims that the best X in the world just happens to be the X which is only available in some country on the other side of the world.

That's a convenient coincidence, isn't it, Mr Snob? Because y'see, if you tell me that the best pen in the world was (say) a Parker that you can buy down at Staples for sixteen dollars, then I might have tried it and be forced to disagree with you. But if you tell me that it's some random Japanese pen then I'll have to smile and nod and bow to your superior knowledge of pens.

Somewhere out there is the town that brews the best beer in the world. This must be frustrating for the beer snobs who live there.

edit: Oh, incidentally I am a big fan of Parkers, and you can indeed get one down at your local Staples for sixteen dollars. I don't like the "gel" type pens, which always seem to come out blobby, I like ordinary ballpoints. I think investing tens of dollars in a decent pen that always writes without the need for drawing half a page of ovals is a worthwhile investment. But that's as far as my pen snobbery goes.

> if you tell me that the best pen in the world was (say) a Parker that you can buy down at Staples for sixteen dollars, then I might have tried it and be forced to disagree with you. But if you tell me that it's some random Japanese pen then I'll have to smile and nod and bow to your superior knowledge of pens.

Meh, that's not really true anymore. With JetPens stocking all the popular Japanese pens, you can experience their superiority first-hand.

In fact, I'd say it's more of a pain for me to go to Staples and get a Parker pen than it is for me to use JetPens (though no doubt I could buy that Parker on Amazon with a similar level of facility).

I wouldn't say it's the best in the world. But if you're into very fine line pens, the Pilot Hi-Tech C, Uniball Signo DX, and Pentel Slicci (I much prefer the Slicci to the Hi-Tech C and Signo DX) are a lot better than the usual ballpoint and gel pens you'll find on the shelf at Staples and Office Depot. (The Slicci is supposed to be distributed in the US now, but I've never seen one on the shelf.)

Due to the fine line and precise tip, they're more like technical drafting pens (think Koh-I-Noor Rapidograph) than ordinary ballpoints.

Meh, if Parker pens work for you, then great. I tried a lot of pens before finding the Hi-Tec-C. Surprisingly, I purchased it somewhere local but, when I went back to buy more, they said it was a one-time order kind of deal. I didn't really seek them out -- I saw it laying there and gave it a rip and bought a few of the plastic ones.

I know what you mean about gel pens though. Takes a couple circles to get em going. I'm more of a pencil kind of guy anyways.

--not a pen snob :)

Oooh, a pen thread on HN. How fun. :)

The best pen in the world is not at all obscure. It's the "aerometric"-fill Parker 51 made from the late 1940s to the early 1970s. Costs between $100 and $200 today on the vintage market, depending on condition, color scarcity, and the seller.

A 51 has been my daily writer for about ten years now. I lost my first one, probably on the subway, and was heart-broken. Luckily, Parker made millions of 51s, so it was easy to find a replacement.

Thanks for the JetPens love cobrabyte! I'm the exact same on the Hi-Tec-C as you - the 0.3mm is the sweet spot.

Correction: $50 pen body.

https://img.skitch.com/20110926-fgc35nm4q2wr8mspaq7c8fpyf7.j...

If you got in on the Kickstarter round. After that, it's $99 according to the link on the front of the kickstarter page.

>>Pentel sells a slim, metal pen body that cures everything these guys are going after.

Reference? Pretty please with sugar?

http://www.jetpens.com/Pilot-Hi-Tec-C-Cavalier-Executive-Gel...

Pretty sure it's called the Cavalier. Nice weight on that sucker.

I have this pen (linked to by joe_bleau above), and it is absolutely amazing - the best pen I've ever used. I strongly recommend it, along with this mechanical pencil: http://www.jetpens.com/Uni-ball-Kuru-Toga-High-Grade-Auto-Le...

I chipped in $50 and I am not a pen snob.

Kickstarter has less to do with buying things and more with supporting people that do stuff that is genuinely interesting and original. This pen - or rather the pen casing - is a really unique piece of design work and I happen to like it so much that I wanted to let the designers develop it into a real product. For fun and profit, yay.

What's a "luxury" car? What's wrong with an $11k Hyundai?

What's a "designer" suit? What's wrong with $50 Walmart-brand?

What's a "classy" watch? What's wrong with a $10 Casio?

What's a "perfectly cooked" steak? What's wrong with an $8 Denny's one?

What's a "sleek" laptop? What's wrong with a $300 Dell?

You could essentially use your line of logic to make any purchase of a product bought on qualities more than just practicality look absurd.

We all enjoy looking for that one thing of great quality. Apple is evidence enough. And what's it to you if I like to spend a little extra on a great looking pen? You've certainly paid a bit more for things because they "felt or looked better".

Whoa, hugh3 had a question about pens, and we've multiplied it into cars, suits, watches, steaks, and laptops?

Those are all fascinating topics, but maybe we could take them one at a time? :-)

I thought the original question was sincere: he wasn't sarcastically saying there's no difference between these pens and a 50 cent Bic. On the contrary, he was asking in the genuine spirit of hacker curiosity: what is it that makes these pens special and interesting and worth building?

Edit: In other words, hugh3 was looking for this page:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cwandt/pen-type-a-a-mini...

(Thanks, fishtoaster!)

What's wrong with a fifty-cent Bic?

Nothing that $281,989 can't fix, it seems. Amazing project.

Try the project home page http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cwandt/pen-type-a-a-mini...

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