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Comment by Crazyontap | Hacker News Reader

I kinda expected this as the top comment. It's just so simple stupid yet it's a wonder that a lot of people discover it the hard way and most still haven't.

I think it just comes down to fear of rejection in the end. Making a product, adding features, working on things and even showing your "cool" demo to friends isn't same as asking strangers for money.. because people can say a million nice things about what you have to offer until you ask them to put in their credit card number. Then the you get to know what they really think.

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> a lot of people discover it the hard way and most still haven't

Some of it may be "morality" component, for lack of a better word. Some people want the world to be one where people and ideas advance on merit rather than via popularity or "knowing the right people", and act upon that hope subconsciously or as a justification for avoiding unfamiliar risk.

I'd wager it's also a bit more common among software developers.

It's common everywhere, I think. There's just a general, pervasive myth around "discovery". Famous artists, great products, even people with enviable romantic situations—most folks think these things were just "discovered". They don't see the hours of practice, the thousands of phone calls, or the hundreds of failed pick-ups in the process.

Seneca once said "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." Too many people focus on the preparation and not nearly enough on increasing the likelihood of opportunity.

Every job sooner or later is a sales job. If we're not teaching this in the education system, I'd argue we're doing a poor job of teaching morals in the education system - although the American system - at least in the better schools - does a much better job of this than systems in Asia.

Agreed. Life in general is sales. Job interview? Sales. First date? Sales. Sales is more than "Here's my product/service. Give me money". It's the art of getting someone to do what you want. I can only speak to American culture, but I feel like most people feel icky about that because the first thought that comes to their mind is the car dealership guy that's trying to sell you garbage like gap insurance that you don't need. Kind of like networking, it feels by definition manipulative when it doesn't have to be.

I agree with everything except the 'first date'. I'm trying to find a person I'm compatible with, and who I can trust completely with who I am. Rough edges and all. I would much rather torpedo date 1 or 2 with a person I'm not compatible with than string things along for a couple of months and break up when she suddenly discovers those rough edges. This has not been a recipe for quantity, I'm hoping it's one for quality.

That's still sales. People focus on "bad" sales, but "good" sales is about being honest about the capabilities of your offering and finding people who honestly need it. It's a bad practice long-term (both in business sales and dating sales) to be over-focused on short-term closing and not focused enough on long-term satisfaction.

Then where is the threshold for 'sales'?

As in, what is "sales"? It's the presentation of that offer. That might be an offer for a product, for companionship, for an intimate coupling. All of those are a form of sales.

> Life in general is sales

Life in a society... where people are divorced from all material realities and only interface with the social... but that's not life in general. There are, for example, wars.

But then resolution of the conflict is sales.

Wars don't end when people put down the guns, it's when people can reconcile their differences.

War probably wasn't the best example because, although I wasn't thinking of it, there's still that social element.

My point is that war involves people directly interacting with physical reality in ways that aren't mediated socially. Modern high tech people live in a world where popular illusions and perception are much more important than gravity and inertia, but reality still exists somewhere, and sometimes it matters.

I agree that "life is sales". But I disagree with the "it's the art of getting someone to do what you want". I'd argue seeing it that way is THE problem and the reason why people find it icky. Sales is about helping people. About finding people's pain and fixing it. Even if you cannot fix it you still might have helped them - maybe now they understand their pain better. Maybe they didn't even know it existed.

I think it's because most tech/product people incorrectly assume that other people also search for the best products to solve their problems

Very true. There is a huge disconnect between what people say and what they do. Especially when they say "I would definitely pay for that"!

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