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Comment by bjarneh | Hacker News Reader

Most frameworks (web-frameworks at least) get you from 0 to 80% in very little time. Nice layout/css etc, but they require you to learn how they want to do everything; which can be both cumbersome and time consuming. Frameworks also gives management false expectations of how long it takes to make something.

"It looks like you're 80% done with the web-page already, and we've just started - great!" — Management

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"But we'd like a quick chat to understand why the last 20% took so long" — Also Management

I love the phrase “quick chat” because it’s rarely ever actually quick. If it was actually quick, they’d just ask it.

Over time I’ve learned that the correct response is, approximately, “Sorry, I’m in the middle of [important work], please book 30 minutes for us and [stakeholders] to discuss it.” Gives me time to prepare so that I’m not caught off guard. And to bring backup if I think I need it.

And HR asking for a quick chat should set off greater alarm bells, especially with regards to documenting the discussion

Well, there's no "preparing" for that... except making sure your LinkedIn profile is up to date.

I actually had a quick chat with my teammate today. 5 minutes (well we chatted about dumb shit like changing oil on our cars for another 5). Also it wasn't bad, I was checking in to make sure his career objectives were being looked after (he just onboarded a few weeks ago).

I find this officespeak hilarious.

The good old "a quick chat"; that's when you know some blame is about to be handed out...

> (frameworks) require you to learn how they want to do everything; which can be both cumbersome and time consuming.

New teammates will have to learn how to do things anyway. But with frameworks there's a chance they already know.

I mean, yeah but that seems like a good investment? Like how many times you want to learn that remaining 20%? And how many times customisations are not reusable? Of course you either learn a framework and reuse it, or go something that is bespoke, and does it have the same unit test coverage? Same documentation? Same ability to hire people with common knowledge? Same ability to google issues? I am not sure, but I see only pros about frameworks (in terms of maintainability but I guess not in terms of resource usage :D) and cons in the context of people not understanding / knowing how to protect themselves from frameworks

Hi2u Telerik and Infragistics if that crap still exists.

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