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Comment by zozbot234 | Hacker News Reader

The Framework laptop has the best idea, IMHO. It just gives you a bunch of USB-C ports, and enhanced "dongles" that are designed to be physically secured to the case rather than dangling from it - hence avoiding wear on the ports themselves.

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Another vote for this. I purchased a framework to replace a surface product and have been really happy with it running windows 10 ltsc. My only beef is that it lost a lot of battery life while in suspend. For a regular consumer this would be unacceptable, I tinkered and eventually just gave up and have it hibernate with the lid closed. Also the surface dock with it's magnetic connector spoiled me.

I'm hoping the second iteration of the Framework has more options. If I'm going to buy a laptop that's all about hardware customization I'm not going to settle for a chiclet keyboard and no mouse buttons.

I've been debating getting an MNT Reform: https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2020-05-08-the-much-more-p...

It's got about the same specs as my main webdev laptop -- which is a Thinkpad X200t -- with a modern GPU.

It's got a mechanical keyboard and a trackball!

I'll probably get an MNT Reform when the LS1028A SoM is available[0]. Though I mean, it's tempting regardless. I picked up a couple super-cheap old ThinkPads in the meantime to tide me over, especially to "plan ahead" for my MNT Reform setup haha :)

[0] https://source.mnt.re/reform/mnt-reform-layerscape-ls1028a-s...

Love it! I've really, really wanted one of those for a couple years now but it would be a huge break from my policy of buying used machines after the depreciation curve flattens out. With the limited market and designed longevity of the Reform I'm not expecting to find them on the used market any time soon. (Plus I'd really love to get the kit and put it together myself!)

it's an arm based motherboard

given the target market, and the ubiquity of the thinkpad supply chain, it's a somewhat baffling decision not to use one of the models of thinkpad keyboards. Given they're already in production I'm sure if you went to one of the factories and said "we want 100k keyboards for the X230" or something that you'd get turned down. It's not like Framework is going to sell 100 million laptops anyway, I'm sure it's something that could be accommodated.

You can't just go to a factory or manufacturer contracted to build ThinkPad keyboards and ask them to build some of those for you, as that's proprietary Lenovo IP which can't be sold to third parties without their permission.

Same how you can't go to TSMC and be like "hey, you guys are making millions of M1 chips for Apple, ca you sell us some of those pls?"

I don't particularly think all the random chinese factories producing aftermarket Thinkpad parts are licensed to do so, but you might be correct that designing a product based on them might be a bridge too far.

Just because some shady factories are managing to fly under the radar building a handful of unlicensed ThinkPad keyboard clones without approval from Lenovo, doesn't mean it's something that Framework, or any other reputable HW maker who wishes to not get sued into bankruptcy, will want to touch with a 10ft pole for their own sake.

Or how did you imagine such a scenario would play out for Framework?

I like the keyboard, but my hope is they will just have an alternative keyboard one can swap in.

They recently started selling in some EU countries, but not yet in the one I reside (NL). It contains an Intel 11xxx, while 12xxx (Alder Lake) is vastly more superior and also there's no AMD option (5 nm ARM like M1 would also be very power efficient). That said, it is a great first iteration. I wonder if it could pass QubesOS certification?

Great idea, but the cost in space and weight is not insignificant. I really hope that future Frameworks package things a bit better, I would even forgoe the USB-C connector for a smaller proprietary connector (I feel disgusting saying that) as the modules are not meant to be used elsewhere. They could still use USB-C signalling under the hood.

Is there any movement for a smaller standardized connector? Even small phones could benefit.

USB-C is a standard and would be better understood by 3rd parties than a custom connector developed in-house. I hope the physical form factor for Framework's modules/adapters becomes a standard in itself because I think it would essentially solve the dongle problem for everyone.

USB-C goes to great lengths already to minimize "space and weight" costs. The easiest way to address those would be introducing "modules" that provide multiple ports when practical in the space that's designed for a single connector. Smaller designs though would inherently be more fragile.

If you're worried about the weight and don't mind how it affects the looks, you could just leave the dongles unplugged and use the recessed USB-C ports

I'll use one as my daily driver the second they get a decent refresh-rate and video card on top of the already awesome specs. An OLED panel would probably also suck me in without those additions.

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