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Comment by rsync | Hacker News Reader

Everything you've said makes perfect sense - for a contact management function.

We have that. You can change contact info, set owner/technical/emergency contacts, alert thresholds, etc.

But unsubscribe means something totally different:

When I click on unsubscribe I want it to be the end of all communications. Period.

In this case, that makes no sense. Ceasing communications for all purposes implies service cancellation and, in our case, service cancellation implies a human interaction confirming data destruction.

How would we confirm data destruction for your implied cancellation if no further contact is permitted ?

You, and the blacklist operators, have become so jaded by the abuse you've suffered that you've forgotten that legitimate, paid services exist. I'm sorry.

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From a comment below from the other side of the equation it sounds like the email in question WAS indeed marketing for a lifetime promotion.

People should have every right to unsubscribe themselves from that, and thus should have some sort of feedback loop attached to the email being sent (to the detriment of your bottom line I fully understand and sympathize with).

If this was indeed a marketing email, then I don't think it matters if it comes from a "legitimate, paid service" - the receiver still should be able to choose if they want to receive sales related emails wouldn't you agree?

"People should have every right to unsubscribe themselves from that, and thus should have some sort of feedback loop attached to the email being sent (to the detriment of your bottom line I fully understand and sympathize with)."

I agree.

We have a flag for such a thing and set that flag when people ask us to. They ask us in a nice email exchange between human beings. We're very responsive to this since they are our paying customers.

That's the big disconnect here: it's inconceivable to many people (including abusix, et. al) that healthy, straightforward interactions like this occur in 2022.

In their mind there are nothing but robots and newsletter subscribers forever locked in an arms race.

I'm sorry that is the case.

Did they request this marketing message through a "nice email exchange between humans"? Or did you automatically sign up this person for marketing then expect them to manually contact you?

You are wayyy to smart not too see the abusive asymmetrical theater of that scheme.

Atleast in my country, to send legitimate marketing e-mails, a user has to be given a choice to opt-out *before* the first e-mail.

So it's not enough to allow them to opt-out with an e-mail exchange or an unsubscribe link, you must allow the user to opt out when you initially gather the contact information.

If that wasn't done, it's illegal (and unethical) to send marketing e-mails, even from a paid service.

Your earlier argument about unsubscribe being effectively an informal termination only works if you properly separate that side from all promotional/marketing/new features/etc material, otherwise it seems you are avoiding the main point and purpose of the unsubscribe button

The flag for marketing etc. should be automated, I understand account-related emails like billing not having "unsubscribe" links but promotions definitely need one. Clicking that would then toggle the flag (and maybe have one in their account panel).

An unsubscribe link doesn't have to immediately cancel all service and communication. It can simply lead to account settings or even to a page explaining how to cancel the account.

You may have missed that bit in my earlier comment about working for a paid service provider.

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