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Comment by tomxor | Hacker News Reader

Unless it magically cleans and tidies everything I really don't see the appeal of home automation. Pressing a switch is far more convenient to me when walking into a room than fishing out a smartphone - whether it be through a raspberry pi or otherwise. Same with central heating, I rarely need to adjust it and I don't see the appeal of messing around with some integrated interface, i'd rather an old fashioned radiator dial or an independent reliable digital central heating timer I might have to tweak for 2 mins once a year.

None of these things are analogous to the TV remote control, there's a reason why we haven't seen similar precursors such as radiator switches on extension cords, we don't need to constantly adjust these things at high frequency... and when we do, we are literally walking past it (light switch).

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All my lights have a physical switch or button. The smarts come in subtle ways:

1. Turn lights on 45 minutes BEFORE sunset at any time of year

2. Turn lights on and off at specific times, automatically adjust for Daylight Savings Time (I'll never have to listen to my wife complain about the lights needing adjustment again)

3. Start warming up/cooling off my house BEFORE I get home from vacation

4. Double click a button in my Family Room to put my whole house into Movie mode

5. Some of my buttons are also temperature sensors. This gives me the ability to monitor the temperature of parts of my home very closely. I've had some struggles with our boiler this winter and we also had the insulation redone in our attic. Instead of relying on anecdotes, I have actual concrete data that I can use to make decisions and gauge the effectiveness of various mitigation strategies.

6. Put hard stops on devices (such as TVs or connected network devices) (i.e. turn the TV power off at my children's bed time).

7. Monitor my garage door and notify if it's open too long or if it's been left open accidentally at night.

8. Fans!! I can turn my ceiling fans on and off based on a variety of triggers (temperature, time, etc). I hate having the fans off but my wife can't sleep with the fan on. Now the problem is solved and we don't even think about it anymore, the fan runs on a schedule.

One of my next big projects will be to automate the opening and closing of our front window blinds. They are in an inconvenient place and are difficult to get to, but I really like to have light coming in during the day but have them closed at night.

There's more but I tire writing this. I hope I made the point. None of this is revolutionary or changes any existing behavior (all the buttons/switches we had previously work same as they always did). But boy does it make some things a lot more convenient.

I’m happy it all works for you and it sounds almost like a bit of a hobby for you too which is great. But from someone less interested in it from that angle it still just sounds a lot like a bunch of work and expense for marginal levels of convenience. I also just find interiors more aesthetically pleasing and relaxing with the least amount of technology possible, maybe a side effect of working in this industry.

Legitimate point. Don't be fooled. It's a lot of work to set up and modify. But it is fun if you like to tinker.

> All my lights have a physical switch or button.

Maybe it's just the UK, but I struggle to find any suitable physical switches that both look like a normal light switch but also function with smart devices.

I understand the benefits of some automation, but if there isn't a 'normal' switch that works completely 'as expected' for the family to use, it's not worth the trouble.

I'm in the US so I don't know what's viable for you, but I'm using Lutron Caseta switches for my main lights/fans. I've had zero issues with them and they even work without the hub (which I only have so that I can link it to home assistant).

They aren't a traditional toggle switch, they have two buttons (on and off). Personally I find that to be an acceptable compromise and in terms of looks they are some of the best looking switches on the market smart or not. A lot of generic smart switches look like mass produced cheap junk. Lutron actually put a little bit of effort into the design which is nice.

What do you consider 'as expected'? Personally I want switches that will turn off when flicked down, and turn on when flicked up. On the other hand, 3 way switches have already broken that rule so instead, toggling a switch will always toggle the light regardless of its position.

If that toggling is okay with you, I've heard good things about Shelly which you can use to convert a regular switch to be smart. Otherwise I'm looking at GE Enbrighten switches which looks to keep the switch itself in a neutral position and have two buttons on the up and down rather than being an actual switchable switch.

It would have to be 'toggling' I think as otherwise it is not possible to gain complete automation. Consider a light that has been switched (physically) off and then turns on via automation - the switch cannot be physically turned off, as it is already in that position.

This is why the conundrum exists and as such I would need to replace all switches with toggles, or distinct on/off buttons, so the family could easily manage.

However, they also need to work as non-smart/traditional lights if the network has failed, and I suspect this is a much harder problem to solve.

Lutron Caseta switches (which I use for my mains) have two buttons. One on top for on and one on bottom for off. They also have a little dimple so you can feel which is which without looking. It gets a little more complicated if you have a fan or dimmer control but the user experience is still pretty good. Is it as quick and easy as a physical switch? No, but it's about as close as you can get without having a physical switch that actively toggles when it's triggered remotely. I don't know if anybody makes a switch like that. It would be nice but for me personally the Caseta switches are more than sufficient. I've had zero usability issues and no complaints from the wife.

100% agree on this. There are very few things I want to do on a daily basis from my phone instead of from a physical switch. One exception is controlling my bedroom lights which I do with Hue lights from my bed.

The other thing I want to automate is music to start playing when I enter the bathroom, to give me privacy in there when my girlfriend is home. And that’s the startup I’m working on: https://Loodio.com since there are no other solutions for it out there (that aren’t crap)

Just get a battery powered rotary smart switch and mount it on your nightstand! Game changer

My phone is always with me so it’s just a voice command with Siri of top down swipe to access switch on the phone “dashboard”

A well-designed home automation system will still work with manual controls and/or if the system is offline.

I have smart devices everywhere yet I can still adjust the thermostat manually, turn on lights using a normal switch, set the house alarm using the keypad etc. However, I also have a 'Night' scene in Home Assistant which sets my alarm to night mode, turns off all the lights in the house and sets the thermostat to night temperature all with a single tap and all over the local network.

^ this. You need to have a high WAF - wife acceptance factor. Another analogy is that grandma needs to be able to stay in the house and not need a computer science degree.

Your home automation system is a complimentary enhancement to a traditional, switch-on-the-wall and physical TV remote control set up.

Agree with the radiator dial analogy.

Here is what led me to some home automation (scared of water leak damage)

- I had a home security system using some external monitoring the old way

- wanted to be able to see what’s going on when I’m away (alarm would trigger the security company to call me but not a water leak)

- bought Aqara water leak sensors, camera etc, plugged everything and currently use Apple’s HomeKit (Apple TV) with iCloud (2TB cloud with “secure video”) to get notified when I’m on my cell if something goes wrong

- this basic “infrastructure” gave me the basics for home automation where I can configure a bunch of conditions (if this, then that) and buy additional sensors/camera and just add them if I want to…

Not Raspberry Pi. Not open source.

More like a fire a forget kind of thing

That seems like a genuine application of the technology. It's adding something uniquely useful that wasn't there before; rather than replacing something simple and reliable with something more complex, equivalently functional and marginally increasing convenience (if at all).

A functional low tech, un-networked equivalent for remote sensor notification to identify a specific event cannot exist. So fair enough.

We just built a dumb house (intentionally). The electricians put in Lutron switches everywhere.

Each one seems to contain a computer, as do some of the LED fixtures.

You can turn on the lights in the bathroom, and start your business before the lights come on. Some of the other switches simply don't work at all (motion detector in the garage? Bypassed! Auto humidity fan switches? Always the wrong policy, haven't figured out how the override button works 6 months in.)

Don't get me started on the compatibility issues between the dimmers or the LEDs, or manufactures endeavors to "minimize nuisance trips" because the new AFCI breakers hate high torque motors.

If humanity ever masters time travel, I'm going back to the 80s to buy light switches!

Yes - I bought two triple-switch wifi-connected switches and only installed one of those. I rarely use it - the only automation that I could leave on for years was "turn the living room led lighting at sunset". This one works because it doesn't make a diference if other lights are already on, etc. Its "robust".

Every other idea failed in some "corner case" I had not thought about (eg turn off all lights as midnight - until one day you have guests at midnight etc).

You would have to add more and more sensors and logic for that to be robust enough for cases like this. (Or Alexa would get smart enough to confirm with you before applying that logic.)

You're missing the point. It's home automation, not home connect everything to your phone. The whole idea is to create custom automations using network connected devices; the ability to use your phone as a switch is just a bonus IMO.

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