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Comment by DanAtC | Hacker News Reader

They hit on a point I rarely see mentioned: ARIN makes acquiring assets as an individual prohibitively difficult and expensive. Especially for IPv6 where European LIRs hand them out like candy e.g. https://clients.stratagem.host/cart.php?gid=14

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Having dealt with ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC quite a lot over the years, this is bang on. APNIC is fairly ambivalent. ARIN expects everyone to be a formally organized entity. Only RIPE seems to truly get that an individual person could be doing something on their own behalf, probably because forming a proper limited company was such a huge paperwork endeavor in most of RIPE's service area.

ARIN really needs the concept of sponsoring LIRs, because right now everyone has to deal directly with ARIN and that means ARIN has to fit their policies to try to fit everyone. While it's technically possible to get IPv6 PI space from ARIN as an individual person end user, and it's gotten easier than in the past, it still looks really daunting to the hobbyist or small network operator.

As for LIRs handing them out like candy, I joined RIPE as an LIR and RIPE will allocate an IPv6 /29 to an LIR for the low cost of zero Euro (well, except for the membership, which is a bit spendy) and that's 524,288 /48s so no reason for me to not slap up a web page and see if I can earn back a few of the EUR I will be paying to RIPE. I'm glad people do it for the pittance we see here.

Frankly it needs to be at least a little bit of a pain to get PI space. As the post briefly mentions, every prefix announced consumes memory in every router on the internet. If everyone had their own PI space it would literally break the internet.

I have a legacy /24 that predates ARIN. I know several other local "early internet" users that also have their own netblocks. Back then, all you had to do was fire off an email. The company name didn't even have to be real.

>If everyone had their own PI space it would literally break the internet.

That's an odd way of saying "spurring innovation in the realm of internet routing implementations!

Damn middleboxers. Always trying to keep the little guy off the net!

ARIN doesn't want or need LIRs because its operating model is based upon having a direct relationship with the entities that hold the ASNs and IP space. If you want to change this you'll need to run for the ARIN board and get a sufficient number of other board members to agree with you for what would be a seismic shift in their entire operating model.

> RIPE will allocate an IPv6 /29 to an LIR

Last time I checked it was a /32.

More than that requires justification (and potential Euro payments depending on context/cirumstances).

Edit to add: Grrr... I see there was a policy change after $myco received its IPv6 allocation [1]. Typical. ;-(

[1] https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2012-10

How fussy are APNIC? I have a Pty Ltd I can put it though, and I'd like my own addressing and ASN and am willing to pay the $1500 a year fee. My justification with a networking plan however would be bullshit, as I just want to play and learn as an individual.

I am curious, what happens if I get a /48 from you and some time later you decide you don't wish to be a LIR anymore. Do I get to keep my /48 somehow (i.e., does RIPE guarantee this)?

Depends on whether the /48 is PI (provider-independent) or PA (provider-aggregable). In the case above (LIR gets /29 and splits it to /48s) it is PA, so the /48 is just a part of the provider's address range, you cannot keep it if the provider ceased to be LIR (or if you wanted to change providers).

But you can instead request /48 PI range in 'sponsoring LIR' mode, which would be independent allocation from RIPE (and subject to small yearly fee), just processed by the LIR. Then you could keep it if you change LIRs.

Your /48 isn't portable, so, no, too bad. If you've got a contract which extends beyond the period where they're an LIR, maybe you have a breach and would seek compensation, but RIPE doesn't care. See also, "What do you mean the guy I leased this apartment from has sold it?".

Most IPv4 space also isn't portable. Even if you have a /24 (enough IPv4 space that it could be portable) it usually isn't, if you actually need portable space you need to make sure that's what you're actually getting, it will probably cost more.

If it's portable then you can just take it with you to another provider.

This was not my experience with ARIN at all. I requested resources as an individual (sole proprietor) and they were issued to me under my own name. The only requirement is that you have a justified use and $250 per year, which is the cost for 3X-Small allocation (/40 or less of IPv6, /24 of IPv4). As of this year it is also $50 to have an "org" created. This is not prohibitively difficult, though it might be prohibitively expensive for some.

Last I looked, ARIN charged $550 (one time fee) to issue an ASN, on top of the recurring fee. Not expensive if you're serious, but if you're a hobbyist and just need a 32-bit ASN number, you may as well explore cheaper alternatives. Based on my own research, that would cover 20+ years of fees for some LIRs in the RIPE region.

An ASN isn't needed unless you are multi-homed. If you're connecting through just one ISP, you can do BGP peering with them using a private ASN. That said, if you do need an ASN, I don't know why they should be so expensive.

Yes, I understand. I set up my first AS in the 90's, back when you were considered a god if you had a T1 line. We had two T1's, one to MCI and another to BBN!

That is a blast from the past! Thanks and sorry for the unnecessary nerd-splaining.

np! I miss those early Internet days.

This seems like a very good deal! Has anyone bought this before?

Kind of biased but I'd like to think it's a good deal too, cheers. I priced it as such as to hopefully entice more people to engage with IPv6 and try to bring down the barriers to learning. If you've any specific queries feel free to fire those over.

Is there perhaps a guide on your website that could detail the steps involved to get an ASN and ipv6 up and running? Also could you explain the free /48 included? Thanks.

There isn't, but there ought to be so that's on the todo now. But I'll try to give you a quick rundown here.

The steps to getting an ASN essentially entail setting up some objects over at the RIPE database and then letting us know what these are, we will then send you some paperwork to print, sign & return to us. From here, we submit this application to RIPE (along with company documents, if applying as a company) and they will then request ID verification from you directly (if applying as an individual) or seek to validate your Company, if applying as a company. A few days later, RIPE will give you an ASN. This is the short version but it is essentially just a bit of paperwork and that's all.

The /48 is PA space we give to you in order for you to announce via BGP, with your fresh new ASN. This is included for the life of your ASN (or the heat death of the universe, whichever comes first) and you are free to take that and announce it wherever you want. We do make a polite request that you peer with us but it's not a requirement. If you do peer with us we can help get you up & running and your prefix announced.

Hope that helps a little & if not, feel free to find me on Discord (link is in the footer of the website) and I'll be happy to walk you through it.

Thank you for your info! That's extremely helpful and accessible! I already made the purchase and look forward to more of your awesome product!

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