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Comment by henry501 | Hacker News Reader

I'm assuming there are many NS fans on HN, so I'll ask this here.

The only NS book I've read is Anathem, and while I enjoyed the story his writing style seemed too self-indulgent for me to really get into. Renaming/redescribing major mathematical and philosophical theories in a parallel dimension? Look how smart NS is. Quantum monk space ninjas? Oh man that's so cool can they be pirates too?

That being said, he's been lauded so consistently that I'd like to read more of his work and figure out what I'm missing. What would HN'ers recommend?

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The thing about Stephenson is that he takes a lot of time to do proper research in to his topics, and with his parents both being in academia (fathers side is electrical engineering with physics, and mothers side is biochemistry) he has excellent knowledge sources as well as learned how to do proper research (this is what he explained at a book signing for the Boroque Cycle's first book), and it shows in all his work.

The problem, as I see it with Stephenson, is that he goes in to such detail that he always needs to build up the world in such a depth that it can make the opening to his books long winded. Any time I have recommended a Stephenson book (and I've read them all, and recommend them all) I warn people to get past page 100, because that's when you will get sucked in to the story. His writing style can be a little unsettling until you get used to it (IMHO), but once you are in there you won't want to put the book down.

As for recommendations - Cryptonomicon, Snowcrash, Diamond Age are all great - the later two are far easier reading but still show the great depths of knowledge and research put in to the books. And once done with those - read the rest.

That's Stephenson in a nutshell: long winded openings and abrupt endings. I haven't read any of his stuff since Cryptonomicon (have them all lined up though) but the single glaring flaw I always found in his books was how rushed the endings were. I don't need all the loose ends neatly tied up, but always got the feeling he was using some sort of lossy compression scheme for the last few pages.

I think some of his books have had well rounded enough endings (for my tastes at least) - but the long winded openings are my only complaint. If you can make it past page 100, I have always enjoyed the rest of the book.

For those in NYC - he is making an appearance at the Barnes and Nobles in Union Sq. on Friday from 7pm to 8pm. I went last time and it was a pleasure hearing him talk about his methodologies behind his books - hoping this one will be as good.

Thank you. I think I'll try Diamond Age -> Cryptonomicon -> Snowcrash based on the recommendations here.

It might be cool to read Snow Crash before Diamond Age; it's set in the future of the same timeline. Doesn't really matter too much, though.

The renamings and new vocabulary are clues to the nature and depth of the relationships among the book's various groups. Another crucial clue is the complete familiarity of one character's name. I can't say more without spoiling.

Really great fiction leverages the reader's powers of construction and imagination. Stephenson gives indicators of the world he's describing and leaves the reader to construct it while he gets on with other matters. If nothing else it's a better use of bandwidth. Ayn Rand lays it all out, does anyone seriously enjoy reading that? The reader's participation in construction gives them an ultimately better grasp of his idea, and a better foundation to think through the implications. Better yet, it opens the possibility of imagining worlds consistent with the plot but different from the author's imagination.

The downside is those readers who haven't time to figure it out, or miss the clues. Or maybe miss some of the background reading, which provides templates for a lot of what Stephenson's getting at. There is a lot of philosophy embedded in the book, if you aren't acquainted with it you're moving without some crucial maps.

So no, the style isn't "self-indulgent". It's a tool for communicating and working with some really complicated ideas. I'm sorry you didn't like the book, but you could just say you don't get it without assuming the author is just showing off?

I actually enjoyed that part of Anathem. I was in highschool when I read it, so a good portion of that book was actually teaching me concepts. His use of alternate universes was pretty fascinating, and having science to back it up (real or otherwise) just made it that much better.

(Side note: I don't know the names of a good amount of those things in the real world. I could explain the HTW theories, Lorites, and whatnot to an average person, but the real terminology escapes me.)

If you're turned off by that, then you're probably not going to like his other books. Snow Crash, in particular, is even further along the spectrum of self-indulgence and geek wish-fulfillment (although I personally like it for what it is.) I'd recommend you go read a subtler author.

But if you want to give Stephenson a second shot, I suggest Diamond Age.

Diamond Age is also my favorite. I think Snow Crash is a satire, given that the hero / protagonist (named Hiro Protagonist) is a programmer, extreme pizza delivery boy, and the best swordsman in the world. I read it once. It was kind of fun.

I've read The Diamond Age about 30 times. The world is very deep, and the characters are mostly interesting (if a little hammy - NS's characters are all just a little one dimensional).

See, when you say it like that...Obviously Stephenson is well aware that the setting and characterization is sort of over-the-top.

But I'm pretty sure his fundamental motivation was just, fuck it, if people write Star Trek / Star Wars crossover fanfiction I can write my story about a hacker samurai pizza detective. And we read it, because once in a while it's fun to read a story about hacker samurai pizza detectives.

The Diamond Age is by far his best work. I think you'd prefer Greg Egan.

Any in particular? I see The Clockwork Rocket for $3.99 and Zendegi for $0.01 on Kindle.

I hadn't even noticed this. $0.01, you have to ask?! Of course, get it :-) I haven't read Clockwork rocket yet. I found his first collection, Luminous, and then got into his stuff from there. Diaspora was my favorite so far, although it was the most difficult.

His prose is quite dry, even cold. It took a little getting used to but I found the effort very much worth it.

If I saw a kindle book for $.01 I would have to buy it or feel like a failure for some reason. lol

So, of course, I now own that one.

Cryptonomicon is a bit more down to earth. I liked Anathem, but there are certainly long bits of 'blah blah' that Cryptonimicon lacks, and seems no worse for it.

What were the "blah blah" bits for you?

There's a lot of discussion while they're at the "big convention" (I forget the exact name for it), and at times it seemed to drag on a bit much for my tastes.

Agreed. I recall being annoyed at having to read 3 pages of some guy eating Captain Crunch in Cryptonomicron. You could tell Stephenson was particularly enamored with his own writing style - to the point that reading some of his passages is like watching him jerk off.

Don't worry, Anathem's the only book where he renames things like that, and that's mainly because his construction necessitates it. He is rather self-indulgent though. Snow Crash or Cryptonomicon are good starts, and if you like them you should then upgrade to Diamond Age.

Well, I found the renaming of Linux to Finux pretty annoying, I must admit. Really liked the book otherwise, but that was grating.

This is right from his site:

>Neal, in Cryptonomicon why did you call Windows and MacOS by their true names but used the fictitious name 'Finux' to refer to what is obviously 'Linux?' Does this mean that you hate Linux?

Since Finux was the principal operating system used by the characters in the book, I needed some creative leeway to have the fictitious operating system as used by the characters be different in minor ways from the real operating system called Linux. Otherwise I would receive many complaints from Linux users pointing out errors in my depiction of Linux. This is why Batman works in Gotham City, instead of New York--by putting him in Gotham City, the creators afforded themselves the creative license to put buildings in different places, etc.

http://web.mac.com/nealstephenson/Neal_Stephensons_Site/Old_...

Edit: tried to fix formatting

It's sort of an in joke. Freax is what Linus originally called Linux. Probably it was also intended to not make the book age too badly if Linux cratered?

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