Comment by lelanthran | Hacker News Reader

Comment by lelanthran | Hacker News Reader

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> But regardless of men or women neither should be dictating how some woman want to show their body.

But, they can dictate how some men want to show their body? *shakes head*

Firstly, you claimed that men are the problem, not that people who object are the problem. This new claim is a different claim.

Secondly, whether you like it or not, women are more likely to complain of male nudity in a venue than men are to complain of female nudity in a venue, yet you want to portray the argument as "men are the problem".

Your argument only works in your head because you draw an artificial distinction between men and women, and you want to "protect" the women. Treat everyone as people and your argument falls over.

Distill your argument to the essential bits:

1. Does a person have a right to show whatever part of their body that they want to?

Sure.

2. Do people have to be forced to see that display in a public venue?

Depends on what the society has decided on.

3. Should the rule be based on whether the viewer/displayer is female or male?

Most definitely not.

> But, they can dictate how some men want to show their body? shakes head

You're making this a gender war thing. It's not about who gets to dictate what to whom. It's about why something is dictated and who it's benefitting.

For genitalia, both genders are not allowed to show theirs. This is acceptable because it's fair.

For breasts, men can show theirs, yet women cannot.

For skirts: too short and a woman is labeled slutty. Why? Because people who sexualize them (often men) view them as sexy and wanting sex. And so these people then dictate that they should wear longer skirts so that they don't feel so guilty themselves. This ends up being one party dictating how the other should appear in order to accommodate their own needs.

Men can wear short or long. It's ok because generally women do not sexualize men in that way. But the point here is that the viewpoint of immodesty comes from the viewer, and women have no control in how they are viewed by others, therefore they should not have to adjust themselves to accommodate for something they have no control over.

> 1. Does a person have a right to show whatever part of their body that they want to? >> Sure.

No that is not my argument. I accept the laws that both genders cannot show their genitals or sexual organs. If we enacted a law that said all people have to hide their mouths I'd be in full support. We don't have such a law but we are close to it (face masks for covid). What I am against is unequal laws enacted by one group on another to accommodate the first or other group.

> 3. Should the rule be based on whether the viewer/displayer is female or male? >> Most definitely not.

This is not about male or female. This is about one group forcing their preference on another group to accommodate their own needs.

> Secondly, whether you like it or not, women are more likely to complain of male nudity in a venue than men are to complain of female nudity in a venue, yet you want to portray the argument as "men are the problem".

Source? Anecdotally living in the South, it is overwhelmingly men complaining about women not properly conforming to their sensibility regarding modesty.

I've never heard it the other way around, and you claiming it is an undisputed fact "where I like it or not" is bizarre to me.

I've mostly heard men and women complaining about female nudity, but then you have flashers.

Unfortunately the comment asking for clarification has been flagged into oblivion, so I'll repeat my clarifying comment here:

I definitely did not intend to say that Naomi Wu is like a flasher, and I appreciate your implicit request for clarification.

I meant that I frequently hear both men and women criticize specifically women for nudity, especially when the critics are from the US, and I very rarely hear them criticizing men for nudity. When men do get criticized for nudity, it's usually in a circumstance where the nudity is being interpreted as a threat, such as a flasher, which is a very different situation than posting a video of laser-cutting a dressmaker's dummy.

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