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Comment by Loic | Hacker News Reader

For art, you experience it if it resonates with you. So, for me art is first an experience.

But going back to the original article, it says:

"A well-appointed kitchen allows you to cook healthy meals for yourself rather than ordering delivery night after night."

As we discussed with an architect about renovating a house, he asked us our budget for the kitchen. We said that we paid about 2500€ for our current kitchen, so we were ready to spend 5000 to renovate. His answer was: "You, you are really cooking!". His 20 year experience was that the more expensive the kitchen, the less it is used. We are effectively cooking every single day of the week.

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We bought an apartment with the most beautiful worthless kitchen (the apartment had other qualities). The bench tops were Carrera marble. Any type of acid dulled the shiny surfaces and any type of food, like tomato or tea, stained it irreversibly.

It really blows my mind that all these expensive ston(ish) surfaces stain so easily. Why in the name of God would you purchase something so expensive and put it in a room where most of the staining happens?

We purchased a quartz (manufactured) countertop about fifteen years ago. It is robust to the point that you can cut on it and put hot pans directly on it. It looks almost as good as (or maybe the same as if you're not too fussy) a granite counter. At the time, it was significantly cheaper than the "natural" granite counters. But I looked recently and the quartz is now more expensive than granite. So I guess folks are starting to feel the same way you do.

I love quartz countertops! You can even get them to look like marble or granite if you want now a days. As you mentioned that are incredibly sturdy! I even have them in my bathrooms.

> and put hot pans directly on it.

Really? We’re going to have to replace our quartz island countertop just from sitting a (hot) lid on it. And we were also told that we shouldn’t sit anything hot on it (I just wasn’t thinking when I sat the lid on it).

A quick search [1] also shows that a downside to quartz is that it’s not as resistant to heat as other surfaces (including granite).

[1] https://countertopguides.com/guides/pros-and-cons-of-quartz-...

See that makes sense to me. Being able to put hot pans on my kitchen surface would be super useful to me. I kinda assumed that all stone surfaces were stain resistant, as otherwise why would people buy them?

It looks good in the brochure, and you don't realize how fragile it is until it is too late.

As a general surface, I agree with you. But for specific purposes, cold stone is really the best working surface. Making pastry would be the canonical example, and marble has often been the preferred stone. But that requires a dedicated pastry prep area, so most people would just settle for a marble board they can pull out when required.

Status symbol. Also looks nice.

Also - people in very rich homes tend to have things on display for areas that look like you’d do work but then they don’t ever work there.

So, for the kitchen, you’d have a real kitchen in the back. That’s where your staff would prepare meals. The front kitchen is merely for appearance.

Real stone like marble or granite needs to be curated prior to use, and maintained. The most you use them, the better it turns regarding stains and absorptions.

We oiled them according to the manufacturer’s instructions. And it’s not like an iron pan that you naturally put oil and grease in as part of your cooking. I’m sure the countertop might become saturated eventually by use, but it would have a very different colour and surface structure after all it absorbed, and all acids that dissolved the surface.

Wonder if there’s anything about Veblen goods being intentionally fragile or otherwise impractical to use, to assert their rarity and expensiveness.

Probably not, they just optimize for looks and not use.

You are supposed to periodically seal it.

> You are supposed to periodically seal it.

Yeah, few people seem to realize how porous marble is. A really bad choice for counters. And floors. And shower stalls.

It's almost as if using marble in spite of it's disadvantages was a conspicuous consumption signal.

Oh, wait.

Trust me, we did. We got some special oil that was what we were told to use. But then some slightly drunk people made Margaritas a late evening. And my brother left a used teabag next to the sink. Then the cleaner managed to scratch the marble when emptying a bucket with water into the sink.

That sounds like it wasn't sealed or surfaced properly? I thought that kind of bench top needed to be protected with some sort of sealant to prevent this kind of thing.

It was carefully oiled with the special oil the manufacturer gave us. That still wasn’t enough.

>>His 20 year experience was that the more expensive the kitchen, the less it is used.

My builder told me the same thing - the people that spend the most on kitchens, are those that use them the least.

I once took part in a certain competitive sport in which it was possible to decorate oneself with all manner of expensive clothing and electronic gear. Without fail, the "tourists" bought thousands of dollars worth of optional new gear before they'd begun, while the two people who I was close to who became world-class competitors had minimal second-hand gear.

Road biking? :D

"People with more money than time buy $3,000 road racing bicycles with ultralight carbon frames to shave two pounds off the bike, regardless of the fact that they themselves are probably at least 10 pounds overweight."

From Chapter 2 of Early Retirement Extreme by Jacob Fisker

As somebody with $10k road bike - it’s way easier for me to make additional $10k (even after taxes) than loose 10 pounds. Also expensive road bicycle is just nicer to ride regardless of weight. Frame is stiffer, electronic gear shifting is more reliable, etc.

$2K electric powertrain would give you even better returns.

The equivalent 2022 price for a top end road bike is closer to $15k. Just the bike.

I love my electronic shifters. I certainly don’t need them, but they never need adjusting. I just hope I never forget to charge them and have to ride home on a fixed (or manually adjusted) gear.

My sister spent $350K USD on a kitchen remodel that included a crazy expensive La Cornue Château stove, yet she doesn't know how to cook. When I visited her many months after the work was done she showed me the stove but wasn't sure how to turn it on. Her goal was to get her kitchen into an interior design magazine, which she accomplished.

She's a constant source of embarrassment, but also entertainment, for the rest of the family.

> She's a constant source of embarrassment, but also entertainment, for the rest of the family.

For remodeling her kitchen?

For spending money ostentatiously, making sure everyone knows how much she spent, and not understanding when they won't or can't do the same.

Perhaps it is that those who spend the most have the most money and spend more time out at restaurants or work too much to go home and cook.

"His 20 year experience was that the more expensive the kitchen, the less it is used."

Which makes perfect sense as such a person is likely time constrained and has the financial means to dine/order out more often. At this point the cost is more decorative than utilitarian, it needs to have the fit/finish of the rest of their home.

n=1 counter-example (ha!)

I know two retired lawyers. When they downsized from a mansion to a luxury condominium, they had an incredible kitchen installed. They don't cook much personally, but they have someone come in and cook a couple of days a week.

They also entertain, and when they do so, they have caterers come in and use the kitchen.

They knew all of this going in, and had the kitchen designed around being convenient for all three scenarios: What they need for themselves, what their chef/cook needs, and what a catering company needs when they throw a party.

I never used to believe that sort of anecdote, but then some years back a woman my wife knew paid at least US$100k for a kitchen remodel/renovation despite the fact that to a good approximation, she never cooks. She literally wanted it all just for appearance. Mind blown (I cook almost every night, and will do so more or less regardless of the kitchen facilities).

> His 20 year experience was that the more expensive the kitchen, the less it is used.

I wonder how they verified that, probably didn't.

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