Comment by dollarsuck | Hacker News Reader

Comment by dollarsuck | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

An outcome of little to no consequences for actions.

Come visit my local grocery store. Few replace carts at the store or in the stalls, there will be 2-6 vehicle using the clearly-marked "Fire Lane - No Parking" lane as their personal parking spots plainly blocking the doors of the foyer (and this is not drop-off, not pick-up, not having their spouse load up in a rain storm). Have "About 12 Items or Fewer" - well have fun, there's two carts loaded for bear ready to use the checkout lane.

The manager will watch it all and dare not life a finger nor raise a voice.

The restaurant at which my S/O works, it's in the nice part of town. The nicest part of town you could possibly not afford. For the lunch crowd, there will be a dozen or so regular folks filtering in with absurd, demanding, bespoke requests (I want the meat of sandwich A, the bread off sandwich B, the condiments from an item on the Sunday Brunch menu). The owner will not let them refuse a request. Ever. Regardless of the problems it will cause for everyone around. Regardless of how long it will waste table space. That $18 lunch order must be fulfilled.

The local pizza joint, my go-to spot for two NY slices and a PBR for a cool $7 - they're not allowed to refuse service to rude patrons regardless of how awful. I once had the barkeep slip me a note asking that I (a large, eternally angry looking man) please wait at the bar for another patron to leave and that my drinks would be comped. Why? The belligerent customer refusing to leave, who entered the facility screaming at (we assume) "incompetent cunt" of a secretary.

It's a bit fascinating and frustrating. One makes an off-color joke on Twitter[0], or an elected official makes a frustrated comment about double-standards[1] and a lynch mob forms to harangue a corporation into punishing the textual predator. Some of those same companies (See: [1]) will not oust a belligerent man attempting to start a fight in the produce section over a road rage incident.

It's all appearance over substance.

[0] - https://www.marketwatch.com/story/anheuser-busch-cuts-ties-w...

[1] - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/costco-pulls-palmetto-cheese-fo...

> Few replace carts at the store or in the stalls

Self-checkout, bag-your-own groceries, return your cart...

Can't help but think this is simply a means by which the grocery cartel can get rid of jobs that high school kids have traditionally benefited from. I guess I have never seen the "cart return" thing as something you do out of politeness.

But if they're not going to pay the high school kids enough, maybe this is the. future (present) we deserve.

> I guess I have never seen the "cart return" thing as something you do out of politeness.

I see it as something you do as a participant in civilization.

While I agree that "the customer is always right" attitude has actuality just become a policy of non-confrontation...

>I want the meat of sandwich A, the bread off sandwich B, the condiments from an item on the Sunday Brunch menu

If they think bread +meat +condiment is a highly demanding, needy sandwich order, then perhaps waiting tables isn't for them.

It at least suggests why they might find their tip-based compensation to be insufficient.

You may not know this, but custom orders slow down service sometimes by an order of magnitude.

I worked at a takeout teriyaki joint in college, and it was as fast a food as you could find. There were 5 menu items, and I could really get in a rhythm dishing rice and chicken and coleslaw. But as soon as anyone asked for something non-standard, then suddenly muscle memory was gone, and I actually had to think about what I was doing. Just asking for no salad could halve my serving speed, especially if they asked for at the wrong time of doing the order.

I can only imagine how much worse this is in a setting with multiple people and multiple handoffs.

On top of that, if the restaurant isn't being run like a short order joint, they're going to have other issues with mixing and matching menu items, like now they may have 2 less dishes they can serve, because, believe it or not, ordering for a restaurant can be a very precise thing, and they'll likely order quantities proportional to the menu ingredients. I'm not saying don't do this, but I am saying be polite when you request these kinds of things, and be willing to accept "we can't do that" as an answer.

I'm not arguing for or against allowing special orders. But that's on the manager, not the customer.

The server having an issue with it (when the manager doesn't) is a problem, and blaming customers for making requests is a problem, especially if policy is to allow them.

Gotta love HN entitlement.

It's not just the waitress. It's also the kitchen staff, which has to fulfill the orders. Low-cost special menus like brunch menus make their money on volume. At least half the food service equation relies on the kitchen to whip the orders out in time. Special requests slow the entire kitchen down. Not a problem if, say, there's not a huge rush. But a huge problem if the staff is slammed.

Maybe you should take after the former labor secretary and go try your hand at a service job.

All factors baked into the managers decision to accept special orders.

This is just the server disagreeing with both the boss and customer, and then wondering why they might be having a problem with a satisfaction based compensation system.

I agreed with your earlier comment and was disappointed to see it in the grey, but both your follow-ups have been lacking, esp. on staff having a problem with something that the management doesn't voice a problem with.

You're ignoring circumstances where the boss okays the thing but doesn't adjust their perspective and still holds the staff to the same expectations—to deliver as if under the same parameters, when the parameters have obviously changed.

charge more for special orders?

Like, if you're Waffle House and short-order is your bread and butter, sure. But a lot of times the kitchen will pre-set up things so they can get them out as fast as possible. There's a lot of management and prep that goes into cheap Sunday brunch that gets tossed out the window.

Like I said earlier, it's fine during normal biz hours. But the 30 seconds of extra time the kitchen staff has to put into your special order during a huge rush puts all the orders behind it 30 seconds more behind. So a whole family ordering special orders can hold up 20 people's orders for 5 minutes. And that just builds up the more it happens.

That's a capacity and thus a management problem: Invest in more capacity.

I'm sympathetic with the staff, which in every business takes the bullets for management's decisions. Tech support is similar - frustrated with long wait times? Don't take it out on the person answering the phone; it is management's choice.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com