Nothing that we pay for with our taxes provides a monetary return. That doesn't mean we should waste money, especially in a country like Spain.
What? Roads, schools, subsidised healthcare. Even the next sentence is a non-sequitur. You're talking crap.
Obviously they do provide value and that value can often be defined as indirect monetary return. There’s also value for the country that is not easy to monetize in money terms, such as more education helping voters be less manipulable.
Funny considering Catalonia pays more in taxes than Madrid.
Citation here -> https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/europe/catalan-referendum-exp...
Note that the nationalists have made no proposal for a Constitutional change in that way.
As a matter of fact, quite a few have been held:
* Basque Country, 1979-10-25: Referéndum sobre el proyecto de Estatuto de Autonomía para el País Vasco * Catalonia, 1979-10-25: Referéndum sobre el Estatuto de Autonomía de Cataluña * Andalusia, 1980-02-28: Referéndum sobre la iniciativa del proceso autonómico de Andalucía * Galicia, 1980-12-21: Referendum sobre el Estatuto de Autonomía de Galicia * Andalusia, 1981-10-20: Referéndum sobre el Estatuto de Autonomía de Andalucía * Catalonia, 2006-06-18: Referéndum sobre la reforma del Estatuto de Autonomía de Cataluña * Andalusia, 2007-02-18: Referéndum sobre la reforma del Estatuto de Autonomía de Andalucía
Actually, Spain forbids independence clearly in its Constitution, as it is illegal in many other countries, like the USA for example.
First, comparing the autonomous communities to states is ludicrous. The legal standing is very different.
> updating their “estatuto de autonomía”
This is technically part of the Spanish constitution, not that it matters because they're never uphold.
But in this case there was not enough international support as more countries (especially in Europe) didn't want to ignite their local independence movements.
Now, try to secede from the USA and see what happens. Almost all countries have in their Constitutions provisions against secession.
The Catalans still have a national day to remember how they were defeated by the Spanish armies and lost their institutions and laws. This will remind them at least yearly that they were once independent.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Day_of_Catalonia
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Barcelona_(1713–1714)
And it is not like there are no secession movements in the USA:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_secession_movements
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_and_secession_in_Cal...
Although I agree the case to be independent must be really strong in the USA for it to work and won't happen soon.
And see cases like Taiwan which are still in limbo.
In the end it is about acceptance by the international community which will decide what is a country and what not.
The war was not because of some “state rights” or whatever you’d like to say, it was a fight for the Spanish Crown between two European Royal Families. If Aragon nobles chose with such bad luck that they were in the losing side, that’s Human History.
The question is if this is the majority or a loud minority. But without a proper referendum we will never know exactly. But how they vote in regional elections seem to be that most are more separatist.
That's from 2021. the legality isn't in question, what was said was specifically about taxes.
Here there are some better sources: [1]
1: https://datosmacro.expansion.com/estado/presupuestos/espana-...
2: https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20211013/presupuestos-inversion...
(1) lists "Cataluña" as the first in revenue
(2) doesn't mention revenue at all, but transfers back to the region.
That doesn't make it inaccurate. It's also still true according to Spains own budget so, I don't understand the point.
> Please, be advised that the push for independence referendum in 2017 was illegal, as the autonomous communities can’t organize referendums (as per the Spanish Constitution).
This has no relevance to the discussion.
> Note that the nationalists have made no proposal for a Constitutional change in that way.
And this is actually a lie. They did, they compromised to something that could be passed, it got approved, and then it was completely ignored anyway.
Why specially Spain?
Although an AI engine would probably consider this 'better' and 'more efficient' this doesn't mean it's morally the right thing to do.
especially while Spain continues to waste money on entertainment consisting of animal cruelty