Hacker News Reader

Comment by ilamont | Hacker News Reader

It's a good talk, but I disagree with the advice "you don’t have time to go out there and talk with the customers, get feedback."

Not every company builds products that they might need internally, and even among those that do, their use of it may not match the usage patterns of ideal customers.

View on HN

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford

Mr Ford's reasons for not talking to customers though is a lot better than "you don't have time"

I do love that quote and I find that it's true that customers don't know what they want. But what that quote tells us is that the customer's problem is speed. That is the value of talking to customers, not asking them what they want, but learning what their problem really is.

Sometimes customers don't know what they want. Many times they do. It's rather arrogant to believe otherwise. Most of us aren't creating cars. Some of us think we are and we spit out Segways (should've heard all the dummies that wanted faster legs!). But most tech startups are providing incremental, not disruptive, improvements. And flat out ignoring feedback from people that are going to buy your product and doing so because "they don't know what they really want" is an odd approach to me.

What really kills me about all this is your customer almost certainly understand the competitive landscape, problem space, and industry better than you do. Maybe every other entry failed because they tried to read between the lines rather than delivering what people want.

That's not to say your product should be built as an amalgamation of every feature request thrown your way. Balance is key. But thinking you know better than your customer might not be a great strategy.

Exactly - customers and users think in terms of features that they want. Our job is to look through the features and pull out requirements, then prioritise those requirements and work with a great team (or alone) to turn them back into the features that bring the most value.

So feature: I want a faster horse

Requirement: Get places faster, and without stopping for rest periods

New feature/tool: <profit>

I totally disagree with this. What the quote means to me, is that the customer's imagination (for lack of a better world) is so limited, that their problems are sandbox by the context of their understanding.

Something that doesn't shit all over their yard might actually be more important than speed, but they wouldn't even begin to think of asking that because it's not a possibility in their world.

What do you want in the next Blackberry? "real touch" and "real browser" were pretty far outside the box when the iPod touch launched..people weren't asking for it because they didn't know they wanted it (or that it was possible).

I think jonpaul is exactly right with his response to the famous Ford quote. Perhaps the customer's imagination is limited, but they know the pain points well. If you're listening carefully, you could figure out the solution. Unfortunately, too many companies use this quote as an excuse to think they're smarter than the customer and develop in a vacuum.

RIM did this. I was a Blackberry to iPhone convert, and I bet a company that was willing to listen to me could eventually figure it out. I would have asked for a browser that actually worked, a larger screen, and thin enough to fit in my pocket (rather than the ridiculous belt clip I had to wear). I had no idea we were capable of the iPhone when it came out, but sounds like my checklist doesn't it?

Mr. Ford might not have actually said that.

http://www.foolproof.co.uk/three-old-chestnuts-cracked/ http://www.quora.com/Quotations/Did-Henry-Ford-actually-say-...

This actually reminds me of a Simpson episode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh_Brother,_Where_Art_Thou%3F) where Homer designed a car according to his own needs. It didn't go well :P

Customers know their problems - not necessarily the solutions required to solve their problems. They may have a solution in mind for their problems. It is the job of the founder is boil down problems to their core and find solutions.

edit: grammar

Also important for founders not to leave the customer with the impression that the customer's solution will be the one implemented

A car is a faster horse.

Yes, if you're trying to create something new, like a car or an iPad, then both Henry Ford and Steve Jobs are right - most people don't know what they want until you build it and show it to them. And to succeed you need people with some mix of vision, taste, and demanding standards making something they want to use for it to succeed. If it passes their test, it will most likely pass the test for the general public as well.

Yep - I don't think that I said that particularly eloquently. And it was related to a point (that I can't remember) that had been brought up earlier in the conference.

But my overarching belief about product design: - build stuff you are passionate about because you use it - listen to customers, but don't do what they say

The reason that products all start to look the same is that customer's only experience of 'better' is a competitors product. That's why you have Audi's advertising about their safety record, and Volkswagon's advertising about their performance features.

A great read on this topic is Youngme Moon's book different: http://www.amazon.com/Different-Escaping-Competitive-Youngme...

Young Me's book is definitely worth a read. I am really sad that we are not able to share that video at her own request. I did take some notes and grab some pictures which give a short summary of some of her arguments.

http://thebln.com/2010/10/professor-youngme-moon-business-of...

I'd love to use bitbucket instead of github (since they allow free privste repos), but they need to have an online editor. I think they should just run through more of the feature requests.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com