Hacker News Reader

Comment by progx | Hacker News Reader

You mean people who organize protests without permit (because they don't like the mandates for masks and minimum separation that would come with the permit), and when confronted with police claim they are just a couple hundred people who happen to be on a walk at the same time by pure coincidence.

I wouldn’t have a problem with it if it was just that. Police here deserve to be stress tested and in principle you can spontaneously declare something to be an assembly by naming someone the assembly leader. The issue is their message and the right wing / nazis that they are walking among them.

It's not a problem who is walking among them or what their message is. Anyone has the right to express his opinion. I am getting really sick of hearing this argument. No there is nothing in the constitution that would forbid you to protest peacefully alongside whoever. Also the message you are allowed to voice is not defined by you or some politician.

If you have a problem with some of the protestants you can voice your concerns. But stop judging everybody participating.

I judge them very harshly, they deserve no respect or sympathy. It should never be acceptable to walk with people that minimise the holocaust or talk openly about how they had talks with former army members of armed insurrection in their telegram channels (there are screenshots to prove that). They chose "Reichsprogrom Nacht" of all days to do a candle procession through Heidelberg for instance, with known Neo-Nazis in their ranks.

But yeah they should be free to continue to self-incriminate themselves on Telegram and elsewhere. It is not like they are some kind of sophisticated state level threat.

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

Just because you label a protest march as "spontaneously going for a walk", it is still a protest march, especially if you organise it (here: via Telegram groups).

The German constitution (art. 8) generally grants the right to assemble peacefully and without weapons without requiring an explicit permit. However, if you plan to do it outdoors in public space, you need to declare it to the local authorities (with the intent to ensure safety for both the protesters and the general public). Spontaneous gatherings are exempt from this, BUT, if you organise a "spontaneous walk" days ahead via Telegram, arguably it is not very spontaneous anymore.

A declared demonstration can be approved with additional requirements (e.g. limiting movement to predefined areas) or even prohibited, provided there are grounds that it cannot be conducted safely. From what I can see, the reason that many anti-covid protests fall victim to this, is that the audience has demonstrated a tendency to break regulations that are in place to ensure public health and safety (e.g. mask mandate and distancing).

If you don't like the regulations, you can protest against them. If you break the regulations however, you cannot.

How nice of you to leave out the attacks against the police and journalists. And the use of children as human shields, like they demand on Telegram.

Readers beware: Don't get fooled by this comment.

These "Spaziergänge" are an unholy mixture of racists, anti-democratic groups, anti-vaxxers and lots more.

The far right has found "new friends" in the people critizing the Covid rules of the government. They are now marching side by side, obviously trying to make their far right positions look "not that bad" by blending in with the others.

Yesterday they were marching against immigration, today it's Covid.

edit: Oh, and they are organizing and spreading misinformation via Telegram. Also there's your obligatory dose of self-justice and murder calls against politicians involved.

The main thing that makes „far right“ look not that bad is downplaying the term. Now it's super easy to become neonazi/far right/fascist/antivax and whatnot. But once you get called names once and the world doesn't stop... Stigma is gone and then good luck trying to establish that this position is just a little bit wrong, but THAT is truly bad.

The answer to that is to counterorganise, civil disruption of their protests by other members of society, not repression by the government.

Generally yes, but once certain people get violent or disobey specific rules, it is the job of the government to stop that. Otherwise things escalate badly.

Sure but that doesn't include shutting down Telegram. It is easy enough to infiltrate those groups and keep them under surveillance. You can do very basic police work to counter act them.

Shutting down is the last resort. If Telegram wants to continue operation, they have to comply to the local laws.

Infiltration also isn't as easy as it sounds. They can use that as a defense. Which actually happend several years ago. They failed to get rid of the NPD, a Neo-Nazi party, because they couldn't be sure if their plans were legit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_G...

Getting a company to obey the law is probably easier.

Not agreeing with your world view does not make people "an unholy mixture of racists, anti-democratic groups, anti-vaxxers and lots more". You just show your ignorance and the lack of accepting a difference in opinion.

They have people running around with "Reichsflagge". There are people from 3. Weg, a known Neo-Nazi party. There are people from AfD, another Ultra-Conservative right extremist party. There are people from "Die Basis", a party full of Nazis and conspiracy nutjobs. There are people holding anti-vaxx signs. They are calling to bring in children as human shields. They are calling for disassembly of the government.

But sure, it's just a "difference in opinion".

You make it sound as if this was the majority but it is not by a long shot.

Every legitimate protest throws those kind of people out. They don't. You may want to ask them why. Funnily enough many of those "protests" are organized by known extremists or those party members.

Is it defined by you who is allowed to participate and what makes a protest legitimate? If people there make illegal actions, the police has to intervene. That's it.

Every protest has someone organizing it. It is their job to distance themselves from certain groups and to send them off. And if those groups don't comply, the police is happy to help. But instead of doing that, they happily walk side by side with those groups and participate in protests that are organized by those.

They want to be accepted by the majority? Then they need to stop walking with literal Nazis.

I am not sure if they want to be accepted by the majority. My guess is the want to protest against the Covid measures by the government..

BTW I just found this https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article236205086/Ver... by accident.

So even the Verfassungsschutz is saying that the majority of the protesters are "usual citizens".

I don't want to persuade you of anything. You can think what you want. You should just leave the same freedom to others and not frame them because some nutjobs are part of a protest..

Have a nice day.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com