The negative test result:
https://pcr.euprava.gov.rs/validate.php?cqcode=1640187792DOH...
The positive test result:
https://pcr.euprava.gov.rs/validate.php?cqcode=1640524880jk8...
https://pcr.euprava.gov.rs/validate.php?cqcode=1640187792DOH...
The positive test result:
https://pcr.euprava.gov.rs/validate.php?cqcode=1640524880jk8...
I can share my own (positive) test, which confirms timestamp and id theory. My test was taken on the 7th January, it was a rapid test, not a PCR. But it's in the same government database:
https://pcr.euprava.gov.rs/validate.php?cqcode=1641591150Q!A...
Timestamp: 1641591150, which translates to GMT: Friday, 7. January 2022. 21:32:30. That seems to be right, it was taken earlier on the 7th and probably entered later to the central database.
Also, ID of my test is: 7601263. Djokovic IDs are 7371999 (16/12 test) and 7320919 (22/12 test).
It really looks like IDs are incremental, and that his test that was supposedly taken on the 16th was taken on the later date.
One consolation fact is that he wasn't positive when he took photos with kids on 17th.
EDIT: I messed up and copied Novak's QR url! fixed now!
- it's automatically sent to email (if they have it)
- you can download it from ezdravlje.rs portal
The test I shared above is the one I got on email. However, I went to portal, downloaded pdf, and now I have two copies. They're different! IDs and all the data are the same, but QR codes are different.
This is the new one: https://pcr.euprava.gov.rs/validate.php?cqcode=1641923234g3D...
Timestamp on new pdf is: 1641923234, which is GMT: Tuesday, 11. January 2022. 17:47:14
So it appears that timestamp is related to when pdf is generated, and when you download it from the portal it's generated at that point of time, i.e. there are no pdf documents sitting on government server!
So this timestamp is definitely no proof of forgery. But test ID might be - that one is still suspicious.
And one more thing, when I switch tabs with my two QR codes - page content is the same but shifted a bit. I didn't look into html/css to see what's different.
I've done these kinds of systems many times in the past and there could be any amount of reasons why a timestamp is included like this. Especially with weird government regulations, policies and rules that mandate all sorts of info to be included inside government documents. Like adding a year or date to when a company was registered to a company's company registration no.
It sounds like you just don’t like or use Twitter. Is that accurate?
We’re not talking about random tweets, we’re talking about on-topic tweets from posters like foone which consistently post relevant content. You’re throwing the good out with the bad and claiming that folks submitting off topic links are bad apples that ruin the whole barrel. I just don’t find your logical argument internally consistent or rational.
I’ll admit I do use Twitter (and HN!) a lot, though.
Here’s one with 600+ points. You’re telling me we should block Twitter on HN. I’m saying that’s a bad idea for HN. Seems like the users of HN agree with me. HN is for all of us, not just any one user’s preferences.
Rapid test:
https://pcr.euprava.gov.rs/validate.php?cqcode=16415703349MJ...
Timestamp: 1641570334, time: GMT: Friday, 7. January 2022. 15:45:34
PCR:
https://pcr.euprava.gov.rs/validate.php?cqcode=1641924832NyL...
Timestamp: 1641924832, time: GMT: Tuesday, 11. January 2022. 18:13:52
I downloaded PCR from portal today, that's why it has today's timestamp.
What's interesting is that her test IDs are 7601574 and 7631146 while they were taken within 15 minutes from each other. There's some 30k difference, and I think Serbia runs around 40k tests a day. PCR samples are sent to central lab and processed later, that would explain why PCR's ID is much higher.
However I don't think we have definite proof of how these test IDs are generated. Different labs could be assigned batches of IDs, PCR tests itself could have preassigned IDs (you can see they have same ID when you're tested, but I'm not sure it's the same ID as presented in results). If test ID is generated when results are inserted into database, then they should always be incremental and Novak's test IDs point to forgery. But there could be other explanations.
My conclusions:
- timestamps are not proof of forgery
- test IDs are suspicious, but we can't be sure.
All invalid reports ("Report IS NOT VALID!") are in red color (Bootstrap 3 class .alert-danger). You can see it when open https://pcr.euprava.gov.rs without any subdir/script/query string.
This green for positive test mean just that QR code and associated test are valid, not that it’s good or bad. Positive test is bad in the first 14 days but after that it’s good - it gives you same rights as if you were vaccinated. But it’s the same test in both cases and green just tells us it’s a valid document.
Digital certificate is different kind of document. That’s the one you need to enter restaurans, bars, etc. after 20h - it will be red if you don’t fulfill conditions, e.g. vaccination or positive test within last 6 months (but not within 14 days), etc.
In programer’s lingo, test result is const, while digital certificate is a function of multiple conditions in context of current date/time.
This is exactly the same as here: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/serbia
So I'm assuming that this dataset can be trusted.
The point:
From the dataset: Date: 2021-12-16, new tests: 13690.0, total tests: 7032035.0 Date: 2021-12-22, new tests: 14808.0, total tests: 7107851.0 Date: 2021-12-26, new tests: 9265.0, total tests: 7158932.0
As We can see Djoko's "ID" (7371999) is much larger than total number of tests for 26th of December 2021 (by 213067) and for me this furthers your point that We don't know how this number is generated. (It seems to be sequential, but is it?)
- Datum uzorkovanja (Date of sampling): 22.12.2021 14:12:10
- Datum izdavanja rezultata (Date of issuance of results): 22.12.2021 16:15:49
=> I will ignore the time needed to get the actual swabs to the laboratory and do the necessary paperwork etc and round this to ~2 hours of time available for testing.
- Vrsta analize i proizvodjac testa (Type of analysis and test manufacturer): Real Time PCR test-SARS-CoV-2, , Sansure Biotech INC; Hunan Province
See, unless my fellow countrymen have developed a way to do PCR tests 5 times faster than the fastest tests available in the (rest) of the world, this test in itself is a joke. This is the reason PCR testing: costs, is usually indicated by symptoms already present/positive antigen test.
You're welcome.
Take care
While I have no clue how they work in detail they offer 60 min express PCRs in Germany at least at my airport.
Seems to be FDA approved.
Unfortunately, no data points from me, even though I have been tested MANY times due to my profession. They've got my email, so they obviously get generated immediately.
However, I do have a data point for screenshots when QR code of the positive test stated that the result was negative. This is something that happened to me as well (back in 2020, once, and never since then). It was a bug, obviously. The second part of the ID is person-specific (all my test results have that second part identical, regardless of when they were taken) - it seems that if a positive test is followed by a negative test, that happens sometimes.
When I donate blood the nurse pulls out a sheet of around 20 pre-generated identical barcode stickers, and attaches one to each piece of paper and bag of blood. This uniquely identifies my donation end-to-end.
Djokovic's PCR tests were done at two separate labs. It is quite possible that each lab is bulk-allocated a unique range of IDs every day or week from the central authority. You'd see big "time jumps" from one lab to the other if you assumed the ID was always in time order.
Depending on how they handle their range (e.g. if they are handing physical stacks of barcode stickers around) the code may not even always be in time order in the same lab.
BTW, apparently my IP address has now been blocked accessing to that website :) I get this message now: "Ваша адреса је блокирана 24 сата! Vaša adresa je blokirana 24 sata! Your address is blocked for 24 hours!"
While I guess in these cases governments don't really worry about enumeration aka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem - it's still often a security risk that means you usually try to avoid it.
Even when internally you have auto-incremental ID - you can provide a non-sequential public ID (e.g. at least use SkipJack/Skip32 of that incremental value).
But our intrepid OSINT researcher discovered that the data in the QR code begins with a UNIX timestamp, such as cqcode=1640187792... and cqcode=1640524880...
From that one might infer that the positive test actually happened 4 days after the negative test.
The documents Djokovic provided to the court claim the positive test happened 7 days before the negative test.
After all the man is guilty of covid wrongthink, so who knows what depths he'd sink to.
There are scientists who state we're at the point where "we need to target the vulnerable" (rather than giving boosters to all over-12s) and that "there [is] no point in trying to stop all infections, and that at some point, society has to open up".
Professor Sir Andrew Pollard, chairman of the [UK's] Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation is one of them.
The scare quotes around "fully" are unnecessary. Two doses is enough to drive down hospitalization risk to flu levels. Boosters aren't necessary from a public health perspective because boosting the already vaccinated has a miniscule effect on total hospitalizations. (Sure, if you want them to reduce your own risk, that's fine because they have been approved. If you want them to reduce disruptions in your workplace, that is also fine. Just don't expect to materially impact health system availability.) Vaccinating the unvaccinated has a much larger effect. Alternatively, Omicron seems like it will reach them before mandates take effect or Paxlovid supply is ready, with worse outcomes on the health system.
If you look at the data, it appears that vaccinating the young and healthy has "a miniscule effect on total hospitalizations", too.
I'm not quite sure what to make of that claim. There are an awful lot of unvaccinated young people in the USA.
"13.2 million of US children and adolescents ages 12- 17 are fully vaccinated. [this] represent[s] 53% of 12-17 year-olds"[0] (as of 5 Jan 2022)
also
"Child vaccination rates vary widely across states. In 10 states, at least three-quarters of children (age 12-17) have received at least 1 dose, and in 16 states, fewer than 50% have received 1 dose."
[0] https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19...
You then said "there are few young and healthy in parts of country where vaccination rates are low".
I'm still not understanding that statement. Across the globe - and across the USA - there are loads of unvaccinated young people, and (happily) most of them are healthy, and (happily) the data show that young healthy people are at very low risk from Covid19 even without vaccination.
What do mandates have to do with any of that?
Do you understand now? The entire point of this thread is that vaccine mandates will allow society to open up, which is not yet possible due to health system constraints, nor was it possible earlier. Your doctor quote is nonsensical in that it doesn't say anything about when society can open up. Today? When the pandemic first started? Obviously not — only when immunity is high enough or effective treatment is readily available.
From that same Dr. Pollard:
“When we do open, there will be a period with a bump in infections, which is why winter is probably not the best time. But that’s a decision for the policy makers, not the scientists.
“Our approach has to switch, to rely on the vaccines and the boosters. The greatest risk is still the unvaccinated.”
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/omicron-wave-pandemic-loc...
I think that claim remains to be substantiated, to put it mildly.
1. Vaccine mandates increase vaccination rates.
2. Increased vaccination rates mean the health system won't be overwhelmed, allowing society to open up.
The doctor you yourself cited agrees with step 2, as do most of the governments in the world that are managing their countries' transitions to endemicity. There are multiple examples showing that step 1 is correct.
Currently many staff shortages are being made much worse by public health policy, not Covid19 itself, in that otherwise healthy staff being forced to stay away from work to comply with quarantine requirements.
These requirements are now being relaxed[0], which is a good thing, but at some point the requirements need to go back to how the world worked before Covid which is approximately "if you're sick, please stay at home; if you're healthy, please come to work".
[0] CDC Updates and Shortens Recommended Isolation and Quarantine Period for General Population https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s1227-isolation-quar...
Croatia, for example has its official coronavirus webpage as https://koronavirus.hr
"a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"
There are definitely more differences between the lexicon and grammar of those languages apart from the alphabet they are written with.
Not very big differences, mind you. But ignoring them altogether or making them bigger than what they are enters the realm of politics.
Anyway, the english wikipedia article does a decent job capturing a few key differences in the dialect continuum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_standard_Bosnian...
I am well aware of them: Croatian is not my native language. But, I learned it and I am conversational in the Shtokavian (Štokavian) dialect. I am Štokavski. This is the standard dialect of Croatian, in Croatia.
My family however were Čakavski. They spoke the Chakavian (Čakavian) dialect. They are from the islands of Croatia. Unfortunately, it is a dying dialect of Croatian that is Venetian in origin. It is not mutually intelligible with Štokavian, but everyone in Croatia seems fond of it.