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Comment by bluebit | Hacker News Reader

Honestly it couldn't be easier if you have some degree of skill - register on Toptal.com and the jobs literally flow in ($70p/h + depending on skills) and you don't have to worry about contracts, marketing, management, invoices etc - you literally just do the work.

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Frankly, Toptal rates are not good enough if you know what you're doing / are a senior. They seem to take way too much. There are lots of agencies, in Europe at least, that specialize in freelancer staffing and take a much lower cut -- depends on an agency of course and how transparent they are, but you should be able to find one taking 10€/h and passing on the rest to you.

Even better is to have direct clients but that's then a lot more time consuming.

any agency you can recommend?

Hmm, while that’s a random number with no specific skills attacked, $70ph works out ~£412pd which is not very high at least by London standards compared to getting a contract job as a developer.

What's the things with Toptal ? You need to succeed 3 different technical interviews where one is a one week long project and if you pass all 3, you are not guarantee to have contracts.

I've heard of people not having contracts after succeeding everything.

To me there is no way I will work for one useless algorithm exam, one interview with a Toptal engineer and then one week long project.

> You need to succeed 3 different technical interviews where one is a one week long project and if you pass all 3, you are not guarantee to have contracts.

Sounds like I might as well be doing regular interviews....

Toptal selection is flawed exactly in the same way many tech hiring processes are: they heavily bias against people who are busy enough not to be able to fit 1-3 weeks long unpaid projects into their schedule. Sure, it weeds out incompetent people, but that's not the same as selecting top people.

agree, it is easy if you are a good engineer. I usually work with headhunter, they take my CV and arrange interviews with customers. From there is just like applying for a normal job. Key is to have a good CV and perform in the interviews.

Having a serious side project in your CV helps. For me its https://www.monsterwriter.app/

Addion: I guess what I'm doing is called "contractor". Working for one client at a time but for multiple months. For me this is more profitable then working for 10 clients at the same time. Between the contracts, you also have time to rest a litte.

Any tips on finding a good headhunter?

This was my experience too. After the initial period where recruiters are a bit afraid to give you your first engagement everything starts flowing really smooth.

I started at Upwork and was constantly writing proposals and struggling with the search to find relevant jobs.

But on Toptal, even after an abrupt end of the contract I get something else in less than a week and it's zero effort from me and all effort from the Toptal team.

Even if I get bored and want a change, announcing the end of contract turns on the avalanche of offers from the Toptal team.

It's just insanely smooth and I had no idea I'd find something like that, initially.

Other comment mentions difficult onboarding process at Toptal with 3 interviews, is this also your impression?

Their interview process is well documented (for instance, here https://clevercoder.net/2017/09/04/toptal-passed-interview/). My experience was that it was doable, though you need to brush up your algorithm skills and have luck with the problems you get.

The interview process is onerous more than difficult: mostly leetcode style questions that need lots of practice for, plus a basic but time-consuming take-home task.

And for me the scheduling was super difficult: the whole process took weeks, with the only times available at odd hours West Coast US time, and my recruiter flaking and rescheduling once.

Beyond some basic level of coding, it's more a test of patience and time.

Automatically evaluated leet coding session (2 hours) + Live English language check interview (15 mins) + 2 week fake template project + Live coding session (30 mins).

I was fortunate enough to pass everything without additional attempts and had no job at that time. Some of my friends got in after 1 year (after you fail at some step, 2nd attempt is delayed), some never managed to complete the whole process.

It's their whole sales pitch - "hire the top 3% freelance talent". You're not getting in through a casual 30 minute conversation.

I understand, still would be interested in his experience.

Would you mind going into your experiences with Toptal more? I’ve been curious about them but it’s hard to tell whether it’s any different from the other freelance sites.

Not OP, but I do about 50% of my freelancing though Toptal (the rest through my network). I see them as having 2 advantages over other sites:

1. Unlike smaller sites and job boards, they have lots of work available. Every couple of days something is posted that aligns perfectly with my skills.

2. Unlike odesk/fiverr/elance they pay market rates. Not FAANG or CTO or IPO rates, but I charge more on Toptal than I ever earned working for Bay Area startups. Plus you get paid net 20; they're on the hook for getting paid from the client.

Everything else about Toptal is frustrating: the byzantine interview process that's irrelevant to the actual work you perform, constant pressure to decrease your rates, the big cut they take, legal restrictions on forming relationships with clients outside Toptal, staff who won't leave you alone during the application process but vanish the second the contract is signed.

I wouldn't want to rely solely on them for freelancing. But they're great when I have a gap in my schedule: I can fill out minimal online applications on Monday, start work by the end of the week, money in the bank by the end of the month.

Could you expand on the restrictions regarding relationships with clients outside Toptal? When I signed the contract, I remember paying attention to this and being pleased to read that you are allowed to work directly with a client after one year from the engagement's end date (which is similar to a clause I had when I was employed for a consulting firm). Are there other restrictions than this?

Guess it depends on where in the world. But for many, $70 per hour wouldn't be that great when all costs are subtracted, down time without billing included etc.

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