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Comment by cybarDOTlive | Hacker News Reader

Though I'm not one to generally say this or that subreddit should be banned, reddit has destroyed many a thousand times less subversive ones than this in the past, like /r/whitebeautyart. So I don't see why this kind of nihilistic, apathetic, passive attitude should be encouraged.

Yes, something like this actually deserves to be removed, especially when it reaches critical mass. Because it does more harm than good to the extent that yeah american youth are just going to get dominated on a global field if most of our zoomer ADHD youth equate having a boss to slavery.

And it doesn't matter at all how few people may or may not participate in this particular subreddit. This is the third time I've seen a post about the subreddit in mainstream news. It's popular and the sentiments are only going to grow with more time and more encouragement, to our detriment.

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As far as I can tell, /r/antiwork doesn't equate having a boss with slavery - they say having a shit job with a shit boss is a shitty situation they should not have to put up with. And, frankly, that seems reasonable.

I have no idea about the other subreddit you mentioned, but it does sound superficially like a spot racists would meet up. But it's been banned so I'm just judging it by its title.

>they say having a shit job with a shit boss is a shitty situation they should not have to put up with. And, frankly, that seems reasonable.

The sidebar literally advocates for abolition of work.

And I’ve read numerous threads where people don’t agree with that. I think most are more concerned about their shitty situation no longer being tolerated, but most still believe they should work for someone.

Yes, and the FAQ makes it clear by that they mean the current way work is organized, they don't think that no one has to grow corn or otherwise be productive. They don't people won't have to do unfun things. They make it clear their issue is with their management.

What would it be like if the goals of that subreddit were accomplished?

- Would it be that most people could choose not to work? (I.e under some kind of UBI program?) I’d like to not have to work ;)

- Would it be that the benefits and pay for many jobs would be vastly improved? That also sounds pretty nice.

- Maybe it’d be that companies have to compete harder to be actually nice places to work. Also a good thing.

What exactly would be to our detriment? Something about lack of work ethic? But why does that really matter? Is it so that we can maintain technical prowess? But why is that important?

What if we were happier and less stressed instead? We’re really failing hard in America to consider our economic systems from the perspective of human flourishing and quality of life.

So, I find your comment very strange. What are you so scared of with the movement for better working conditions such that you want it to be outright banned from the internet?

The phone and computer you are using, the vaccine that protects you from covid, the medicines that keep you living when you get sick, these are the products of thousand years of hard work from past generations.

People wanting to "abolish work" may rather leech on society, it is a consequence of social media brainwashing: gambling, crypto, FIRE, 4hww, etc. These concepts have wide scale, harmful implications for the future of humanity

It’s funny that you mention 4hww, because the affiliate marketing/monetizing one’s blogging or podcasting brand hustle to create passive income is absolutely piddling pennies compared to the rent-seeking methods used by the ruling classes to generate wealth without actually producing anything. If there’s ever a tribunal for the hysterical prosecution of those responsible for harmful economic implications, the credulous folks who try to make money through dropshipping or retire via FIRE will be far back in line compared to those malefactors of great wealth who actually work in the other FIRE.

Are you arguing against:

* What you feel /r/antiwork stands for based upon your interpretation of the title?

* What a couple of anonymous posters on the forum wrote?

* What the essays in the FAQ actually argue for?

> People wanting to "abolish work" may rather leech on society, it is a consequence of social media brainwashing: gambling, crypto, FIRE, 4hww, etc. These concepts have wide scale, harmful implications for the future of humanity

Leech on society... I think you've got this backwards. The "leech on society" is all rent-seekers.

Maybe we should ban landlords, seems they're pretty leechy by just holding onto a residence so they can make people who can't really afford it, pay them just for the privilege of having a bed to sleep in....

Blame boomers, for you will become like them: grow or die. This is the harsh reality.

Should a doctor or nurse be paid as a restaurant or retail worker? Who is the "essential" worker? Look at the market, tech is becoming more essential, not services.

If you don't upgrade your skills and stay stagnant, you will be decimated. If you are young, you can still learn and adapt, change careers and industries.

You cannot afford to think like a boomer anymore: adapt or die. This is the harsh reality.

And many have indeed adapted, by becoming rent-seekers or engaging in hustles to try to optimize over the rat race- hence the types of behaviors you denounce.

The market is far too irrational and complex to assign essentiality based on salaries or valuations.

You seem to be bringing up the hoary "learn to code" lesson, but plenty of people trying to make money in crypto or achieve FIRE are former coders themselves. In their view, they upgraded their skills.

"Would it be that most people could choose not to work?"

It means you are exploiting those who grow the food you eat and produce the services you consume for nothing material in return.

From the remaining workers point of view, since there is nothing material available, it would be better not to produce the surplus consumed by those choosing not to work and have Friday off instead.

Stuff doesn't make itself. Most of us work in solidarity with the farmers and the service workers that make our comfortable lives possible.

> nihilistic, apathetic, passive

Whatever r/antiwork is, it's none of these three things.

For contrast: nihilism would be proudly not wearing a mask in public spaces during a pandemic, because reasons, and then bragging about it.

> something like this actually deserves to be removed

Absolutely. Because complaining about wage theft is worse than actual wage theft.

Imagine a world that censored complaining. That'd be a world without Outlaw Country. That's not a world want to live in.

Johnny Paycheck - Take This Job and Shove It https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj2iGAifSNI

Trying to control what ideas are allowed to be discussed seems shockingly authoritarian. It's not like this community is inciting violence.

The point is that the other communities that Reddit banned weren't inciting violence either. This one is way worse than they were, yet it's not banned and they are.

The solution to authoritarianism isn't more authoritarianism. If Reddit overstepped in the past, we shouldn't treat that as a watermark for what should be banned in future.

It's not an overstepping at all, reddit has and always will be authoritarian. They will always be political. They banned whitebeautyart because it invoked a feeling of honor, tradition.

They won't ban antiwork because it encourages giving up, consooming, laziness, weakness. Exactly the kind of NPC audience reddit milks money off of. Ad revenue, reddit gold, buying emojis, constant scrooolllling, etc.

You are just naive, there will always be authoritarianism, forever. You're just on the receiving end or the administrating end.

Whatever you're selling, it won't bring answers or peace of mind.

You're posting on a website that routinely removes posts and comments. It's definitely authoritarian, but forum sites are not democracies.

There is an argument that a subreddit could be out of line with the site, and not hosted. Granted it would be a bit of a stretch given the kind of content on reddit. I don't think r/antiwork crosses any line, but it's really up to reddit

Reddit's right to moderate what content they host isn't under challenge here.

The problematic behaviour is advocating for a ban on the discussing these ideas.

> shockingly authoritarian

… so all in a days work for reddit?

I have never witnessed a status quo so blithely defended.

We are free to imagine and strive for a different world than the one we find ourselves in, and I would argue those trying to stifle that are the ones who should be banned from forums.

Maybe forcing workers to work when a hurricane is approaching or not increasing the minimum wage for decades while cost of living skyrocketed was the real detriment all along.

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