Comment by theshowmustgo | Hacker News Reader

Comment by theshowmustgo | Hacker News Reader

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Amsterdam is not reflective of Netherlands, that is saying like NYC or Las Vegas is reflective of the US.

"Non Dutch native working in childcare centres would mean their kids didn't learn Dutch properly". If those non-natives don't speak proper Dutch or with a heavy accent I could understand these parents, kids pick this up and it will influence their learning and future prospects negatively.

I am sorry you felt treated badly but that is not racist, a Dutch person would also get "fuck you" (rot op) if you ordered just for closing, especially because cafes close at 2am in Amsterdam.

You have to adapt to local culture, most people use debit cards and don't pay cash, especially not small items with large bills, if someone tries that, the bill is most likely a fake.

Calling to try to change resident registration?? If you could do that, anyone could easily commit fraud.

Some ghettoisation??? Yes, there are no-go areas, I lived there, try to get a taxi or uber at night going to the K buurt.

An enormous amount (like the average number of people living in a Dutch city) of non-western, low educated immigrants (>80% young men) are coming to Netherlands each year, there is no housing so the government is putting them into camps. This causes a lot of stress and criminality on the surrounding villages. Busses need to drive with police protection.

> If those non-natives don't speak proper Dutch or with a heavy accent I could understand these parents, kids pick this up and it will influence their learning and future prospects negatively.

It's more complex. Learning in your native language has a strong effect in your ability to learn. For very intelligent kids this is no problem and may be actually good, but the aggregate effect is that non native kids will lag behind. Also immigrant parents tend to have lower education and worse jobs, with more demanding schedules and less time and energy to monitor closely their children and this also has a strong effect. A few inmigrant children is no problem at all but if there is a huge percentage then the academic level will drop. This will transform into just another force pushing segregation that will feed back the whole cycle.

I don't feel particularly badly treated. Things like the fuck-you are peculiarly Dutch. The 50 euro note incident is comical because there are hundreds of ways to handle large notes, it's a problem the whole world has. It's not unique to the Dutch shop to find it annoying. The Dutch shop response is a bit more unique.

The restaurant thing I should have been clearer. It was a repeated experience I and others shared. Not 45min before closing time: 45min before kitchen closing time. If the staff just ignore you, until the kitchen closes they can close up faster.

The premis/registration things you also misunderstand me. The problem is that Dutch officialdom is incredibly complex. Many other expats told us of the experience I relate here, you ring to ask a question and get a bad answer, if you ring back 20 minutes later you get a good one. It's a notorious problem many expatriates get: there's one form, it's actually all 26 different forms stapled together and you have to find the one page which applies to you, in the set. The funny thing is that the south Amsterdam registration office even gives you a booklet whose opening phrases are "yes, we do paperwork very differently here. Expect to get a lot of this"

All cultures have their quirks. My Dutch friends and longterm resident non Dutch shrug, and accept these things.

The childcare thing is worrying. It has huge assumptions, like the premise they will learn bad Dutch. Really? So the Dutch grandma who lived in Jakarta All those years ago being raised by Indonesians... she learned bad Dutch? And, there's a reason immigrants work in childcare which needs to be seen too: if you want echte-dutch language and culture in childcare you have to pay better)

Australia is far from perfect. I'm not saying we do it better or the French do it better or anything. I'm just saying the Dutch have their quirks and institutional racism of a kind, is one of them. Along with a very new yorker fuck-you attitude. But maybe you're right, it's an Amsterdam thing. I'm told the south (maastricht) is very different and they certainly dress differently from what I saw. Somebody said it's like catholic protestant a bit too: old Dutch catholic money down south, old Dutch protestant money up north.

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