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Comment by thepasswordis | Hacker News Reader

>You need a new group of friends, firstly.

This is absolutely horrible advice. Alienating yourself from all of your friends simply because you don't want to drink the same things as them is not a good idea.

If you don't want alcohol, then just don't drink it? I have been to many, many, many music festivals, parties, etc. and not drank anything. I can't imagine just exiling myself from all of my friends instead of simply not drinking something.

(Obviously if you have a medical condition or something, or a history of addiction, then this might not apply)

edit: there are many replies to me talking about addiction and accusing me of encouraging an addict to engage with their addiction. I'm not. I said it above, but if you have a history of addiction, or if this is an addiction problem, obviously this advice does not apply, and you should distance yourself from addicts.

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OP explicitly calls his friends (and himself) an alcoholic. That implies a different dynamic than simply a group of friends who goes out and has a couple of drinks.

Finding a new group of friends in that sort of situation is absolutely the correct move. Addicts do not let other addicts quit.

It's probably more likely that OP is throwing around the term without a true appreciation for its meaning. Me and my friends get stupid drunk when were together on the weekend and I want to do other activities is very different than me and my friends all have 10+ drinks a day (top 10% of adult consumption).

OP said "all my friends are alcoholic" not "all my friends are alcoholics".

I read that as: all of my friends drink alcohol, not all of my friends are addicted to alcohol.

If OP and all of his friends are alcohol addicted, then yeah: that's a medical problem and my advice doesn't apply, which I already said.

Among primary English speakers, “alcoholic” almost always refers to abusive drinking.

I can’t imagine using “alcoholic” to describe people who consume alcohol in moderation. And I am around a lot of teetotalers.

Yes, but using the singular signals a non-native speaker, and this is reinforced by using "couldn't" rather than "haven't [been able to]" in the third sentence. I think GP is on to something.

I think you're reading too much into it there. Plenty of native speakers have far worse grammar and more questionable usage choices, especially the ones that are young and drunk.

The sentence sounded weird to me too and I interpreted it as a non-native english speaker simply saying their friends drank alcohol but where not alcoholics. OP should probably clarify.

In the context of 23 year-olds, I think it's safe to say that none of them are actual alcoholics, just that they drink A LOT, as many people at that age do.

How is that safe to say? There are plenty of 23-year-old alcoholics, having lost control over their alcohol consumption, in full-blown physical and/or psychological addiction. You don't have to age into it, or take a test, or carry a card. It just happens to you.

Someone who can’t have fun without drinking is an alcoholic.

Respectfully disagree. The best thing you can do to make meaningful personal change is to change your environment. This is pretty universal advice for people dealing with (either in themselves or others) abuse, addiction, etc.

If people are drinking, it’s often in places catered to drinking as well, leaving not many other options. Being sober in those places is, frankly, boring.

> Being sober in those places is, frankly, boring.

As someone who doesn't drink this is 1000% true. I don't want to hang with the drinkers because it is boring as hell.

I think it hugely depends on whether a particular group of people are your support framework, or your enablers.

I don't read the advice as "remove all your support framework, friends, and family and go at it alone". I read it as "find supportive people who can enable your goal".

For me, it's absolutely trivial to not drink or not smoke in groups of friends. But that's because I'm NOT a drinker and I'm not a smoker.

For anybody I know who IS a drinker or a smoker, casual or hard-core, the social aspect is absolutely pervasive and can be brutal in trying to quit. If one is not a drinker or smoker they may have a hard time fully empathizing / understanding how hard it can be to be around others who not only partake, but see it as critical focal part of activities.

exactly this. i had no problem hanging out with friends, many of which liked to drink beer while i wasn't. i was never pressured, and nobody got drunk and we all had fun. but if they had tried to pressure me, i probably would have left.

keeping a habit is a lot easier than changing one. change needs encouragement and if that encouragement doesn't come from friends you already have, new friends are needed. that doesn't mean to give up old friends, but it means to get an additional circle of friends.

new friends can be found by joining a new activity or picking a new hobby, or to go visit new locations...

The OP stated they are an alcoholic. You don’t tell an addict, “hey, just stop doing drugs!” You have to change the environment.

No they didn't?

“Me and all my friends are alcoholic” is a bit ambiguous.

Add the "I just can't have fun without alcohol" and it is not ambiguous.

"I'm 23, me and all my friends are alcoholic"

Sounds like English is his second language.

Yeah, you'd usually say "my friends are alcoholics".

Also, there aren't really that many actual alcoholics at 23. Actual alcoholism tends to take years to develop.

> I just can't have fun without alcohol.

Sounds like an alcoholic to me.

Change the topic to drugs instead of alcohol: "Me and all my friends are cocaine addicts. I just can't have fun without cocaine." If you've recognized that your cocaine use is detrimental to your life, does that sound like an environment you should remain in?

The % of the population that does not drink and isn’t religious is pretty tiny.

But we are pretty awesome! :->>

More seriously though - It's 2022. For better or for worse, if that is desired, it is trivially easy to find fellow members of any given subculture and preference group. Friendly non-alcoholic atheists are far from fringe in this day and age (geography depending of course, but the short post does not specify).

Finally, I don't think I've read the "non-religious" portion in the original ask - so not sure where that part even comes in. People who don't need to drink to have fun, or people who can have fun without drinking, are pretty common.

OP didn't say "my friends drink and it bothers me." They said "my friends are alcoholics and can't have fun without drinking." He's not looking for friends who don't ever drink. Just ones that understand moderation.

I'm also not sure why religion comes into it. If you're a non-believer and you don't want to socialize with believers I feel like you've missed the whole point of atheism/agnosticism.

No, it's correct advice. I don't know how old you are, bu there's nothing hugely unconditional about keeping friends. Moving on from friends is a standard part of adulthood, and what OP describes sounds like such an occasion.

Agreed! If these a important lifelong buddies then you salvage the friendship by doing things together that don't involve/require drinking and hope that they don't declare you an outcast.

But if this is just some scattered collection of folks whose lives revolve around getting drunk together, then IMO it's no big loss to move on. There's plenty of awesome people out there to discover.

Also, talk to your friends. I'm sure a number of them would actually want to do something sober, it's just that things just easily fall into that mode.

If you like watersports, suggest doing soemthing like that. Or go to the gun range. Or go to an origami course together.

If no one suggests anything then to the bar it is. But there's a lot of options, but it requires active thinking/planning/doing from both parties.

No it's not. That's one of the first things they teach you for addiction treatment - get rid of the old things that trigger you...

Nobody said alienating anyone. "You need a new group of friends" doesn't mean OP can't still be friends with the people he already knows. But if they want to do things that their current friend group just isn't interested in (Having fun without alcohol), then he needs to find new people to do that with.

Don't alienate yourself. Just diversify your friend investments. That's often a good idea anyway. You don't want one life event of one societal change to make your entire social support system come crumbling down.

I mean... First, you don't have to alienate yourself from your old friends in order to meet new people. Second, you don't have to make "left the group" reach the level of alienating.

People comes and goes, booze night can be fun at times. But if it stopped been fun, then your decision of leaving should be honored. Otherwise, the relationship is unhealthy and needs adjustment.

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