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Comment by obblekk | Hacker News Reader

Also worth considering that a 3-4yr old iPhone is quite usable without much noticeable lag (maybe just need to replace battery for $50).

3-4yr old androids have been, in my very anecdotal experience, completely unusable (software bugs that’ll never be fixed, battery drain from OS updates released after manufacture year).

If I were to give a 13yr old a phone, I’d probably give them my used one, and then survival bias would mean they probably get an iPhone since more of them survive in a very usable state.

My dad actually likes Touch ID so much he uses a 5yr old iPhone 7 daily. Just replaced the battery for the 3rd time out of pocket.

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I've been an Android fanboy, but I'm starting to hit a point that I'll probably switch to iPhone. Like clockwork, my Android phone becomes unstable after about 2 years. Everything slows down, lock ups happen more frequently.

On top of that you have constant tweaks and changes - often on useless things. This year, an update "improved" the clock app. It's now harder to set alarms - and about once per week I get an alarm going off without any UI to disable it. I just have to reset my phone.

Why in the world does a stable, reliable feature like the clock app suddenly introduce a major change.

> my Android phone becomes unstable after about 2

What do you attribute that to? Is it software updates that slow it down or some kind of pile up of junk that somehow slows it down like Windows 95 used to get?

> On top of that you have constant tweaks and changes…

Yeah, that exists on the iPhone too. Can’t think of anything off the top of my head but I promise you they make things worse sometimes with redesigns and take a few point releases (or even entire releases) to fix them.

> What do you attribute that to? Is it software updates that slow it down or some kind of pile up of junk that somehow slows it down like Windows 95 used to get?

I'll add that in addition to software, Android hardware typically experience more NAND degradation, which can slow the phone down. A possible explanation being that iPhones use NVMe storage vs the cheaper eMMC/UFS type found on Android.

AFAIK the slowdown is due to cheaper lower quality Flash memory.

99% latencies increase as the flash memory wears or fills, and I think the UI gets intermittently blocked on writes.

Very interesting. This aligns with my experience. It also explains the random crashes and freezes. Things might just go missing.

The difference is that iOS bugs get fixed pretty quickly, which makes me believe that people inside Apple actually use their own products, so they spot the problems and address them very fast.

Compare that to Android 12 on Pixel phones. Users can't make phone calls due to some bug, and Google is going to provide a fix by the end of January! Do you think they'd delay it that long if they used their own products?

I often wonder whether Page and Brin carry iPhones and run ad-blockers.

i bet they have cool ones with big cracks on the screen

I just did that when the iPhone 13 released. My social circle couldn't believe that I got an iPhone after me being extremely critical of them. After a few months, it's a bad experience, Android is clearly more user friendly, customisable, powerful, but it doesn't work.

iOS may be locked down like crazy and have UX from 10 years ago, and the keyboard is atrocious (even swiftkey is way worse than the android version), but it works reliably.

My partner has an iPhone 8 that still works perfectly fine, and much faster than my 3 year old flagship Android. Why the performance degrades after 2 years, I have no clue, plus it happens across brands (seen it with Samsung, LG, Sony)...

I tend to think that if you want an Android, you must use it with a third party ROM (Android distribution) to mitigate this, additionally to some privacy concerns.

However this is a hit and miss affair. You need to buy your phone with this in mind (always do this, even if you don't intend to use it yet) and many are quite unstable (LineageOS and /e/ are quite good).

I'm back on Android for now (it has some apps and freedoms I prefer), but I have been at a point recently at which I have said holy shit, fuck this and bought an iPhone. And it was nice. No constant worrying whether my battery would suddenly drain to 0. Much, much, much fewer random delays, frame drops and stutters. And that's on an iPhone X.

>Like clockwork, my Android phone becomes unstable after about 2 years. Everything slows down, lock ups happen more frequently.

have you tried lineageos? My 5 year android phone (flagship) is still usable with lineageos. The only lags I get are from heavy SPAs inside firefox.

I'd guess the problem is with Firefox. I have a (very simple) Home Assistant instance on my local network. Chrome takes a second or two to load and render it, Firefox takes 10-15 seconds.

Ye, I always disable non-security related updates on pretty much all my hardware, then do a update once a year for new features on some stuff.

Recently got access to Windows 10 LTSC from a company I worked with and installed it on my workstation, super fast compared to the modern version I was using (LTSC build is 3 years old IIRC) and didn't find any downside compared to 10 Pro, so can recommend that for any dev that feels like their machine is too slow.

Is there a way to disable all unnecessary services in Windows 10 to make it be as close to LTSC as possible?

The main draw of LTSC IMO is the 10 year support period. You can continue installing the monthly updates, and not have to worry about a feature update. Those are the ones that come twice a year, and ruins your day by taking 1 hour to install, resets random settings in the process (eg. default apps or telemetry settings), randomly changes the layout/color scheme, and randomly replaces your built in apps with worse ones (https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/12/07/redesig...). A debloating script doesn't protect you against those.

as for disabling bloat in non-LTSC versions, there's various scripts floating around, eg. https://github.com/DrEmpiricism/Optimize-Offline/ or https://ameliorated.info/

These are Android-type reasons for switching away. Again Apple offers an option that just sucks less.

Every Android phone that I've owned (about 7-8 of them?) died with hardware problems within 2-3 years. Except for my current one.

It's a 5 year-old Moto G5 Plus that I bought for ~$200. It got one OS upgrade to Android 8.1.0. I run Firefox, Signal, Google Authenticator, and the usual set of Google apps (GMail, Maps, Keep, Drive, Contacts, Calendar). It's a great phone. The only problem is that it stopped receiving security updates 3 freaking years ago. But I'm not going to throw away a perfectly usable phone.

Weirdly all my android phones are still working. I upgrade on average every 2 to 3 years, current phone bought a flagship 3 years ago and other than battery degradation it's performing as it was when I first purchased it. I am actually using my older models for various automation tasks and one as a webcam for video calls from desktop. Maybe the problem is when buying cheaper models?

my android phones are all going great, back to the google nexus one. maybe this is just a highly emotive and irrational topic?

none of my Android phones died in last 11 years of using them

though i used to upgrade after 1.5-2 years, current phone holds record, soon 4 years of use without any lag or anything probably attributed to not updating system, which would bring me no benefits and using clean lineage ROM, also not fan of crap apps

> Every Android phone that I've owned (about 7-8 of them?) died with hardware problems within 2-3 years. Except for my current one.

That seems suspiciously high. I "manage" approximately that many phones and only one has stopped working without obvious cause of failure (eg. smashed screen).

I agree, but here is my rough memory:

- the Nexus One died when the power button broke

- the Nexus S died when half the touch screen stopped working

- the Galaxy Nexus died for some hardware reason that I cannot remember

- one of my Nexus 4 died when the battery ballooned and shattered the glass

- another Nexus 4 died in an infinite boot loop

- the spare BLU brand phone died in an infinite boot loop

- the Moto X died when the radio antenna (both WiFi and cell) stopped working

- the Nexus 5X died in an infinite boot loop

Can confirm Nexus 4 and Moto X issues. Had exactly the same ones.

Nexus 6 though (it is very similar to Moto X hardware wise) only died after 4 years after taking a swim, and was perfectly functional until then.

I had a Nexus One, a Nexus 4, and a Pixel 1 XL. They all worked great-- lasted a total of 11 1/2 years. I just bought a Pixel 5a/5G, and it's great.

I don't think the bootloops count as hardware failure?

How is everybody having Apple replace batteries on their old devices?

Walked in and tried to get the battery on my first gen iPad Air replaced. The guy said the model is flagged as 'vintage' in the system and he can't replace it.

Vintage...

Apple won't do the repairs past 5 years in most of the country, up to 7 years in California.

But you can do it yourself. Repair kits for iPads: https://www.ifixit.com/Kits/iPad-Fix-Kits iPhones: https://www.ifixit.com/Kits/iPhone-Fix-Kits/iPhone-Battery-K...

Disclaimer: I sell these.

Thanks for making iFixit. Really helps the right to repair movement.

Are there no third party repair services in the US? In Europe these are basically on every corner.

Disclaimer: replacing batteries on iPads are insanely difficult.

The vintage designation is for products 5-7 years old. Apple does not guarantee part availability in this range but will do repairs if possible.

7+ is considered obsolete and they won't touch it.

That is old enough that a battery update through a third party or through a DIY vendor like iFixit should be reasonable.

> having Apple ...

Oh no. Apple won't do shit (or at an unreasonable price, if you're lucky). That's one reason everyone's so mad about them making it so hard for everyone else.

This isn't true of flagship android phones which are more comparable to the iPhone. For example, my Galaxy S9 continues to work excellently besides the aging battery.

Samsung phones are exactly like what the GP describes. Maybe things have changed now but Samsung phones used to get only 2 Android version updates

they largely still only get two major version updates. I've stopped buying Samsung phones and started using a $300 Pixel. A third of the cost compared to a $1000 samsung phone. I can junk it after 2 years and just get another one.

Funny you say that, because I just had to replace my Galaxy S9 at slightly under two years of age. It became unusable due to a defect called the "Samsung green screen of death", which I learned is widespread, age-related, and unfixable.

Allow me to introduce Pixel 6 and the Android 12 fiasco...

My Mom has a 7 with the latest version of iOS. Never had to replace the battery for some reason (she’s very easy on it).

I often use it when I’m around her for some reason or another. Works fantastically. My only complaint is that between the smaller screen (compared to a FaceID phone) and her having it in zoom mode (easier for her to read) the screen feels cramped.

But performance wise it’s not an issue at all. Nice and smooth. She’s not playing high end 3D games or editing video so it works for her.

Only reason she’s thinking of upgrading? The cameras have come a LONG way in 5 years.

I have a 1st generation SE bought in 2017 and still haven't replaced my battery. It's life isn't great, but I can generally get through the day without charging.

I've thought of upgrading for the same reason as your mom though.

I tried to get a new S21 from Bestbuy, it is $499. I have a old iphone 11 and it is worth more than the new S21, so Bestbuy would not take it.

I bought my 2015 6S Plus in 2018 and it still works fine and gets updates in 2022. This was after a string of Androids, none much cheaper than the iPhone, that were out of support almost as soon as they launched. I got tired of the ever-growing list of patched vulnerabilities and missing features in newer Androids.

I got an iPhone 7 2 years ago (then-new), precisely because I was fed up with Android. But mostly I'm quite disappointed.

Better privacy settings are great, it is so much easier to lock down permissions (though I hear Android has gone a long way). Everything else is worse.

Performance was OK, but now is so-so, phone definitely feels very slow from time to time, or Safari randomly crashing. Some websites will reload a bunch of times then crash completely. Typing is so much worse, autocorrect is more like auto-typo, compared to what I'm used to (which surely mined text data from my and everyone's phone but so be it). App availability for general stuff seems worse.

I wanted to like my iPhone, but don't, and I'm likely to go back to Android when this one finally dies.

The Safari crashes can sometimes be fixed by rebooting the phone. Otherwise they happen much less frequently on an iPhone with at least 3GB RAM (7 has 2GB).

The autocorrect can be fixed by using Gboard instead. I don't know why Apple can't make their iPhone keyboard work right.

I'm the Android user myself since 10 years already, was using Google Nexus phones, some mid-range OnePlus. Recently got the OnePlus 8, which got quite a few updates since beginning of this year, and I'm already tired of it. Applications won't start that fast anymore. Camera application is starting with a huge delay when triggered from the lock screen. If I buy and Android phone again, I think I will never install any system updates. Or will switch to iPhone. This is sad.

> 3-4yr old androids have been, in my very anecdotal experience, completely unusable (software bugs that’ll never be fixed, battery drain from OS updates released after manufacture year).

What sort of Android device? Flagships usually have a much longer life than cheap ones.

I had a Mi Mix 2S for 3 years (2.5 of it with literally a hole in the bottom left corner with a circuit bord visible after i dropped a heavy and sharp object on it) and it was as snappy and fast when it died due to water damage, and was still getting updates. I know people with OnePlus 6 or Samsung Galaxy S7 which work just fine ( there are no updates though). The updates part sucks but is getting better across providers, so hopefully will be better in the future.

Exactly this - my youngest is still using an iPhone 6s which is running the latest (iOS 15) version just fine, after only one battery update. We bought it in 2015.

I'm still on the original battery on my 7 after nearly five years.

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