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Comment by asperous | Hacker News Reader

Anyone want to guess as to why?

Here is my guesses:

* iMessage. Teenagers are pretty social and try hard to fit in. Teens may feel more "cool" and "in" to use the same type of device, and iMessage also cements that.

* Affordable. iPhone SE is $400 which is still expensive, many parents may see that as affordable for their teen

* Parental controls. Apple has a staggering number of parental controls, does Android match this in terms of features and ease of use?

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>iMessage. Teenagers are pretty social and try hard to fit in. Teens may feel more "cool" and "in" to use the same type of device, and iMessage also cements that.

My girlfriend is 21 and often doesn't add me to groupchats when we're organizing stuff with friends solely because the messages will be green instead of blue.

An iMessage group chat‘s nicer and more advanced features break when an sms user is added to the group.

It's the network effect. I suffer from this too. If only Apple would adopt RCS but they won't because they like their walled garden.

Ignoring some things I would consider flaws (lack of end-to-end encryption right now), from what I’ve read it sounds like the rollout of RCS has been something between a mess and a disaster if your friends are on another carrier.

It sounded like it got to the point where phone companies were delaying so long (at least in the US) that Google is basically forcing their hand by doing everything themselves if the carriers don’t.

Meanwhile iMessage has been running for 10 years.

That said I agree with you that I see basically no reason for Apple to add it. That’s up there with iMessage for Android in probability.

I could see Apple adding iMessage support to more platforms if they can use it to tie into service offerings.

However, I doubt people on other platforms would really appreciate it, because the level of integration won't be there.

You should get an iPhone and stop being left out.

Or find a friend(or GF) that values you more than chat features...would be my vote.

This right here. Additionally If you’re serious about making a life with someone it’s much easier when you have things like shared calendars, shopping lists, etc. There are many ways to do this but iCloud is easy and the aforementioned features are free.

Just in case OP is susceptible to peer pressure, I want to offer that if you really love her, it’s OK if you have different operating systems on your phones.

Haha yeah I couldn't care less, I just thought it was a funny anecdote and it's probably not entirely just because of the color, that's just what she said when I asked her about it a couple years ago. And excluding me from the group chats and having her relay everything to/from me is probably for the best anyways, I'm terrible at checking my texts and my friend/family know the fastest way to get a hold of me if Im not replying is to text her instead :p.

It's really absurd that this has to be stated in writing! If a "friend" would cut you out of a portion of their life because of something as trivial as what smartphone messaging platform you use, well, I have some bad news for you...

Shared calendars are a thing with Google and sync with any device, desktops included. Shopping lists are shared on Amazon and most grocery store apps.

They're also cumbersome.

In what way? o-O

Google Calendars has sub-par iCal/vCal support, and will omit calendar entry information (or entire entries) sometimes.

It deals with sharing pretty well when both parties have Google Calendar accounts.

The same goes for Google - you can share Keep lists and Google Calendars, all for free and easy.

I wouldn't want to pay money to the party that created the problem in the first place.

Don’t have to. Just buy second hand.

Or find another girlfriend..

Buying an iPhone sounds easier. But agree not exactly a good sign if they care about messages being green.

That being said, I've had multiple tinder dates mention they don't go out with guys that have green messages since it's an indication that they are poor.

I think the status thing with IPhone is a big thing. The extend and embrace with IPhone and iMessage and SMS is almost like Microsoft did it. Wonder why Android not did the same thing?

Google made Hangouts the default SMS client for several years and there were obvious benefits to sending Hangouts rather than SMS messages with it. Few people did.

I don't think she cares about the messages being green or any status implications that are attached to this color. However from what I understand iMessage groups basically break when there's a non-iOS device involved and suddenly everything reverts back to SMS/MMS, which sounds awful.

In other countries we use cross platform messengers like Whatsapp to avoid that. Of course that brings a whole other problem set with it but that's a different discussion.

That filter works both ways. Who wants someone that shallow?

Let’s be charitable and assume they meant that they are poor at picking a quality smartphone.

That's actually hilarious :)

It’s not because of the color. It’s because group SMS sucks. Messages arrive late, out of order, or not at all.

SMS is indeed trash. Unfortunately nobody seems willing to go out of their way to accommodate the minority of android users in their friend group. My techy friends use Signal, but efforts to get people to join me there have been quite fruitless.

My sister joined matrix, but she didn't remember her password the next time I tried to reach her there.

I don’t know what things are like in Android land, but if 95% of your messaging is in one app it feels like a real hassle to adopt another app for just one person/group.

Would you start using a second podcast app just to listen to one individual podcast? Or would you just go without?

I’ve always assumed Android users are used to multiple messaging apps already. Is that the case?

> I don’t know what things are like in Android land, but if 95% of your messaging is in one app it feels like a real hassle to adopt another app for just one person/group.

I'm experiencing that with WhatsApp (in Israel it's pretty much 95%+ WhatsApp). I moved from Android to iOS, and WA have yet to add cross-platform migration ("in the coming months"), and I don't trust any of the 3-4 sketchy apps that offer this. So I end up using WhatsApp Web and switched to texting for family members.

This led to more than a couple "oops I forgot I need to text you" because iOS Safari doesn't allow web notifications, and I didn't check WhatsApp Web yet.

Would you start using a second podcast app just to listen to one individual podcast? Or would you just go without?

Do you consider close friends and family comparable to podcasts?

It was the best example I could think of off the top of my head where someone might have to use a different app for a small percentage of a task.

I’m open to better examples.

I use signal as my SMS app. And for people who have signal I get more reliable delivery and e2ee.

I use element for some random people. And interacting with open source communities.

I use slack for work.

I don't use fbmessenger/WhatsApp, discord, or any other closed source messaging app besides slack.

I use:

Messages (Google SMS app)

Slack

Discord

Facebook Messenger

And Google Chat for work.

Makes sense. Thanks. On my phone I use:

* Messages (SMS & iMessages)

* Slack

That’s it. I don’t have work stuff on my phone. I suppose if I did I’d have Google Chat.

For some reason I don’t see Messages and Slack as competitors in my mind. They fit in different “categories” (for whatever reason). Messages is for everything but one long running group chat that used to be on-prem at my last job as a sort of social room. I think of it more like IRC and not personal messages. Messages is 95% one-on-one for me.

Signal is almost infinitely worse than iMessage in terms of features, UX, stability, etc.

How so? Signal supports Android and has a cross-platform desktop app (that supports not only macOS, but also Linux and Windows), while iMessage does neither. Signal also has perfect forward secrecy, while iMessage does not.[1] Signal even allows everyone to create and publish sticker packs free of charge,[2] while iMessage requires a $99/year Apple Developer subscription to do the same.[3] I suppose Signal doesn't let you create Animoji or Memoji, but that's not essential to me.

[1] https://eprint.iacr.org/2021/498 (page 19)

[2] https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360031836512-St...

[3] https://www.theverge.com/tech/2016/9/23/13005160/imessage-st...

I have been using multiple Signal groups with different sides of the family for a few years now. Honestly, I have yet to run into any problems and few of the groups have roughly 25-100 new messages per day.

Signal isn't that great, but it has cross platform which isn't insignificant (even for you, don't you want to be able to switch computing platforms without losing everything?). However Telegram just blows them all out of the water with the UX, DX, search, stickers, polls, etc.

Signal is not comparable at all to iMessage.

I would assume given their close relationship the significant other likely told them directly why?

I think the point is that people either consciously or subconsciously know that green bubble conversations are genuinely worse, not that people literally like the color blue better.

Yeah, exactly. When I see a green bubble from someone I almost have an aversion to texting them because I know there will be a bunch of papercuts making the experience shittier.

Never used an Iphone, but am impressed with parental control features on Android via Family Link. Very configurable - can do the basics like block apps and request permission for app installs, time limits, etc. But really like how you can both have time limits but exempt apps(for more time or forever). So I can let the kid listen to music before bed, but not say, open YouTube.

Sorry if that all sounds basic to you, I'm new to this and just speaking from the Android front.

That what always confused me... being "in" - i understand, but how one can be "cool" doing the same thing as 87% of everybody? =)

If I remember from my time in school, the secret is to do it while pretending to be different than everyone else. Jokes aside, being cool is not about being different than everyone else - that's what an outcast is.

Right--being cool is being different from people outside of your particular clique. It's a group of people all being different in the same ways. Goths, punks, jocks, etc.

While that's certainly an aspect, "cool" people can be identified by others even in the in-group. Usually it's related to them having genuine authenticity vs a "poser" who is distinctly uncool.

Sure, there is social hierarchy within the tribe. But the tribe members all share a common culture. The phone isn't necessarily about being cool, it's about conforming to the rest of the tribe. A tribe that all uses Android is possible, but the interlocking nature of social networks combined with a teen's heightened sensitivity to being an outsider creates a stronger "winner-take-all" mechanism in teen social networks compared to adults.

a group of 87% is no longer a "group" in my opinion. It is "the rest".

The group isn't defined by the phone, it's defined by the relationships. The phone is just along for the ride. Think of it as an aggressive virus that displaces weaker ones in the social network.

Because if you're "out" then you're "uncool."

perhaps it is just mental block... but i can't see how you can be "out" of 87%. it is approximately everybody. If anything, if you are not part of it, you are actually "in" in much smaller group and that's where cool badge (should be?) applied.

> Affordable

Not really, that’s the main reason why iPhones aren’t very popular outside the US.

I can get 2 good Xiaomi phones for the price of an (outdated) iPhone SE. I’d love to get my parents and grand-parents on iPhones to simplify their life but at that price that’s not happening.

In the US, iPhone SE is not $400, there are numerous carrier selling refurbished iPhone SE for about $120 and brand new for $180 with 3 months of service. Thus iPhone even brand new is not as expensive as it appears on Apple website.

>Teenagers are pretty social and try hard to fit in.

This factor alone probably explains why teenagers amplify Apple's market advantage. They have a stronger impulse for conformity with their peers: ie, they tend to all use the same phone as their friends. Coupled with the fact that most of them have more than one social group they identify with, it makes it unlikely that a social subnetwork of teens all using Android could survive the competing peer pressure from neighboring connected social iPhone subnetworks.

> iMessage. Teenagers are pretty social and try hard to fit in. Teens may feel more "cool" and "in" to use the same type of device, and iMessage also cements that.

It was the same thing with MSN Messenger (when Millennials were teenagers) and with BBM was well.

In certain locales the same thing is true with WhatsApp.

> Affordable. iPhone SE is $400 which is still expensive, many parents may see that as affordable for their teen

Especially amortized over the longer life of the device; $400 over 5 years is only $80/yr and iPhones can reasonably last that long

$400 is really good. anyone who argues with that has not seen the price of shoes nowadays.

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