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Comment by munificent | Hacker News Reader

I follow a few subreddits dedicated to service industry jobs and the stories you hear there are just absolutely insane.

COVID has taken a deep emotional toll on everyone. Then you factor in that the kind of people still going out to restaurants and such during the pandemic are also often the most entitled, least thoughtful segment of the population, and you get some real horror stories.

It used to be "here's a story of a shitty tip I got". Now, it's like "I had to call the cops on someone who started throwing chairs when I told him he had to weak a mask."

Healthcare is the same. Just story after story of burned out nurses having patients dying of COVID screaming in their face about it being a hoax.

I feel so sorry for anyone who's job forces them to deal with people so decoupled from reality.

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My sister was a hostess for an upscale restaurant and had a gun pulled on her because she asked someone to wear a mask. The worst part, instead of calling the cops or asking them to leave, her managers still had her seat the party. She doesn't work there anymore.

Honestly, that is probably the best way to defuse the situation and prevent people from being shot. Collect license plates, credit card info, photos etc, and call the police after they have left the building.

Even if that were the case, the manager should be the one seating them. He shouldn't be forcing his victimized employee to seat them.

I'm sure they did not do any of that

Yikes. Pulling a gun like that is a serious crime, isn't it?

Definitely. Simply displaying the firearm is a crime (usually "brandishing"). If he actually pointed the gun at another person, well, IANAL but that sounds like assault with a deadly weapon to me.

Absolutely do not believe this. There is something in this story you arent saying.

I live in Texas and this happens all the time. Here is a case that happened last month over a parking spot. https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/south-texas-el-paso/news/20...

> Absolutely do not believe this.

Which part?

If I had the guess it would be the part that might make them rethink their view on things.

Have you worked shitty retail/food services jobs before?

I'm not saying that pulling a gun on anybody for this reason is in any way reasonable or proportional. What happened to your sister sounds horrific and her former-employer sounds awful beyond words.

But I have to say, I understand why people asked to mask up in some cases flip out. Does it make sense to anybody that society has somehow decided that the way to be safe in restaurants is to put on a mask so a host can walk you 10-15 feet to your table for 10 seconds where you then proceed to take your mask off for over an hour? The mask ritual especially in this case is dehumanizing performative theater that doesn't make a lick of logical sense. Most people wouldn't be so uptight about the Covid rules when they make any sense: but many of them are beyond nonsensical.

Theater or not, the reasonable thing to do in this situation is to understand that the host is not the person making the rules. You do the thing because that's the script, whether you agree with it or not. In fact maybe the host doesn't even agree with it, but they are also just doing their job.

Now that said maybe there are valid reasons why it's riskier to have people walking around a restaurant unmasked, like say HVAC might pull air up from the tables, but you walking around past a bunch of tables spreads droplets into their airspace. I don't know, I'm not an expert, but I can think of reasons that seem to make sense.

Sure, it's theater. So the proper response is obviously to flip out on the teenage girl making $7.50 an hour, obviously it's all her fault.

Who said anything about flipping out on the teenage girl making minimum wage being the right thing to do? Is that how you interpreted my comment even though I very explicitly denounced what happened?

I think actions such as politely voicing displeasure at the policy to the worker so they understand that many people think the policy is dumb, asking to speak to the manager or owner, and leaving so the restaurant doesn't get your business are the right thing to do in this case.

Who said anything about flipping out? Let's see here... why it was you, in the very comment I replied to:

> I understand why people asked to mask up in some cases flip out

Understanding why somebody flipped out doesn't excuse or justify it. Read things more closely please.

> But I have to say, I understand why people asked to mask up in some cases flip out

I do not.

> Does it make sense to anybody that society has somehow decided that the way to be safe in restaurants is to put on a mask so a host can walk you 10-15 feet to your table for 10 seconds where you then proceed to take your mask off for over an hour

Maybe. If the tables are spaced far apart and preferably outside. Packed in an enclosed space? No.

However, eating out at a restaurant is not a right. Don't like the rules, go somewhere else. Similarly, businesses can refuse service.

We are not toddlers. Not supposed to be, anyway.

> I do not.

I understand that there's some people who are thriving and happy wearing masks, but that's certainly not everybody. As for many people like me, they are not worth wearing. Masks are psychologically damaging and dehumanizing in many ways. Already imperfect human communication is further harmed with masks. They are unnatural and damaging. And outside of wearing an N95 perfectly in one room for one task, I believe that the way they're used in practice is harmful to health (people are constantly adjusting and touching them, not washing them for ages between uses, etc)

> Maybe. If the tables are spaced far apart and preferably outside. Packed in an enclosed space? No.

If we can acknowledge that a rule doesn't make sense for health and safety in a certain context, then why follow it?

> Don't like the rules, go somewhere else.

There are plenty of people who would gladly do this but cannot when the rule is in place by Government edict.

> Similarly, businesses can refuse service.

I'm all for property owners deciding the rules on their property, but that's not exactly the system that's been built up and that authoritarians advocate for.

> We are not toddlers. Not supposed to be, anyway.

Toddlers don't have the capacity to fully understand their world and make rational risk-management decisions.

Toddlers are the ones who are expected to comply with what they're told.

I'd say that people who are using their own judgement are the opposite of toddlers here.

It sounds like you really just don't like being told what to do.

Which I think is more the fundamental issue of a lot of people who flip out about many things, including this issue.

Pray for the retail workers that frequently cannot wield your expected level of judgement themselves.

"Masks are psychologically damaging and dehumanizing in many ways." If a tiny little mask is causing you this much trauma you should seek professional psychological help because that is not a reasonable or healthy response to something so trivial.

Have you asked why so many people are so strongly resistant to a "tiny little mask"?

Put yourself in another person's shoes and try and realize why being forced to cover yourself, especially going on 2 years now with no end in sight, feels so unnatural and distressing to so many.

Think about how the masks impacts all human communications, not only in terms of facial expressions and body language, but even just communicating in immigrant communities where English is a second or third language and clear communication is already difficult in the best of times when people aren't masked.

This is not a small or trivial deal to many people. Use your empathy and talk to some mask-critics about how its psychologically damaging to them.

Anecdotes are not data. It is trivial and at most a minor inconvenience.

You are the one that needs to re-calibrate themselves and have some empathy, rationalizing this situation is reprehensible:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29813465

"I'm not saying that pulling a gun on anybody for this reason is in any way reasonable or proportional. What happened to your sister sounds horrific and her former-employer sounds awful beyond words.

> It is trivial and at most a minor inconvenience.

You can dismiss my anecdotes if you want, but this is not a small or trivial matter to me and a lot of other people. Having this concern completely dismissed does nothing except harden my resolve to avoid complying with this dystopian medical theater.

I assume many people also looked around at friends and family with computer friendly jobs and saw them be able to work from the comfort of their own home in the event of a public health emergency, while they had to still go out and deal with the public face to face.

If I was in their position, I would be demanding a hefty premium for having to leave my house to earn money.

Yeah but it's a labor supply issues, they don't have the leverage to make those demands, at least not yet although hopefully this is changing now.

The mass-formation-psychosis among anti-maskers and COVID-19-deniers is so far beyond what we're prepared for.

Because mass-formation-psychosis can't happen to people who obey.

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