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Comment by WalterBright | Hacker News Reader

It's amazing how much clever engineering went into such a simple device.

And how much it is forgotten today. I have a couple 5 gallon plastic gas containers. They are terrible in comparison. For example, instead of an air pipe to allow smooth pouring, there's a separate cap which has to be unscrewed, and then the cap is inevitably lost.

Modern ones have this spring-loaded spout, which is supposed to prevent spillage. It inevitably causes spillage, because the spring is so strong you cannot regulate the flow, and the tank fills too fast and overflows. I hate spilling gas every time I load the lawnmower tank.

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> I have a couple 5 gallon plastic gas containers. They are terrible in comparison.

There are terrible designs everywhere: read The Design of Everyday Things by Don Norman.

Heck, even doors: the moment you have to put signs that say "push" and "pull" on a door you know it's a terrible design. Have a look at product reviews on American's Test Kitchen's YouTube channel, and things as 'simple' as spatulas and cooking pans can be have bad designs.

If you want old-school design "jerry cans", checkout Wavian for metal options:

* https://wavianusa.com/collections/nato-fuel-cans

For plastic (HDPE ) options in the same design language see Scepter:

* https://www.scepter.com/products/consumer-products/

Comparison discussion between the two:

* https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/scepter-mfc-vs-wa...

I've had Wavians for a couple years. In our lake community, we get compliments about our gas cans. It's amazing how people respond when you build something well.

Oh yes, I read and have a copy of Norman's book. Every engineer should read it.

We can't get Scepter MFC cans in the US, I've searched extensively. Not sure if that's due to California CARB or the federal save the children rules. We can overpay on ebay to buy them second hand from Canada though. It's a shame because I'd love to have a durable can that doesn't spill and leak like crazy like the newer ones. I'll probably try the Wavians, but plastic cans are superior to metal for my intended use so it's a compromise.

I got one on eBay. It says for military use only. So far I haven't been pulled over with it in my trunk.

That is an excellent YouTube channel, the reviews in particular. Thank you.

MidwayUSA makes these for HarborFreight now - https://www.harborfreight.com/5-gallon-jerry-can-99551.html

It advertises an "automatic shutoff". This may be the same wretched gas-spilling device on my gas can.

Buy a Wavian and the One True(TM) nozzle: https://armysurpluswarehouse.com/wavian-jerry-can-nozzle/

Also do a search for "shaker siphon" and "pump siphon". You may not have to use a nozzle for everything.

It is an automatic shutoff. You can always swap the spout/nozzle.

  > Heck, even doors: the moment you have to put signs that say "push" and "pull" on a door you know it's a terrible design.

I recently pulled on a push door that had a pull handle. One of the condescending managers there asked if I could read. I answered that I always pull before I push to avoid merge conflicts. I have no idea if he understood.

why no rebase?

Because they’re Mercurial.

Non-clever response: https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/RebaseExtension

I had to fight my metal-over-plastic instinct when it came to jerrycans. I've seen some metal ones rust internally and affect the stored liquid. Plastic ones are color coded which is another boon. They're lighter, and you can get them smaller than 20L.

Edit: some of the plastic designs get a bit excited with the molding and have fancy shapes. They look like they stack with other cans of the same brand. There are probably other benefits to their nice designs. But otherwise keep them rectangular and close to the original shape if carrying many/using them in frames designed for jerrycans (e.g. external storage on a 4WD).

I bought two of the metal ones and they're terrible. The mechanism on the spout that allows it to retract is so stiff that it's basically a struggle to fill a lawnmower tank because you have to hold it back as the gas starts pouring out. Since the egress is round, you're bound to spill before you get it into the hole. If you don't hold it back you have to press it so hard into the lawnmower it starts leaking around the seal at the base. Idk how anyone can tolerate these cans.

You can thank the US government for that, it's a federal requirement on all new gas canisters. It's supposedly to prevent accidental gas spillage but in my experience it makes the problem far worse. You can still find traditional spouts, but don't use them for gas they're for water only ;)

> I bought two of the metal ones and they're terrible. […] a struggle to fill a lawnmower tank […]

Jerrycans (20L) were designed for semi-bulk filling of large-ish vehicles, not for low-volume top-ups of small-engine appliances. Perhaps you bought the wrong tool?

> Heck, even doors: the moment you have to put signs that say "push" and "pull" on a door you know it's a terrible design.

As we get more and more doors whose design directly contradicts the action required to open the door, at some point the most robust design needs to include the “push” or “pull” sign because people know that nothing else about the door’s design is a reliable indication of the required action.

My current batch of fuel containers are all from Justrite.

They're expensive, but I don't have any issues with leaks. I have a 1-gallon for 2-stoke fuel, a 5-gallon for the gas mower, and another 5-gallon in yellow for diesel.

https://www.justrite.com/type-ii-accuflow-steel-safety-can-f...

Do not buy a wavian. I have two wavians and they're absolutely terrible Jerry cans. Let me explain why. The wavian safety spout is absolutely terrible and the crux of the entire shitty UX that is this Jerry can. I have no idea what they were thinking. When you attach the spout it forms a seal by pressure as set by the clamping mechanism. This is a problem and I'll explain why in a minute. The spout works on a design that if you apply pressure, it will retract (like foreskin) and allow fuel to exit the spout. These two combined make a massive design flaw. Imagine you're filling up a lawn mower. You insert your spout into the gas inlet on the lawnmower. Now what? Two options. Press hard as hell into your lawnmower so the spout allows fuel to flow, or, try and retract the spout using your third hand. I can now no longer do either of these because the spout retraction is so damn stiff, the pressure I exert causes the seal to break that I mentioned earlier, the one that is created when you first attach the safety spout and latch it in place. You now have gas coming from two places. Top this off with the fact that my safety spout is now so stiff it sticks open, and it's a completely unsafe and useless Jerry can that I will recommend against until I die. This has happened on BOTH of my cans, and my father's, and my brother in law's. We all bought them from Costco a little while back. I'm tempted to upload a YouTube video of just how unsafe these Jerry cans are.

You can thank an overly specific EPA regulation for the terrible spouts.

https://ezpourspout.com/why-gas-can-spouts-changed/

You can still get the old style spout in Canada. There are also companies that sell "replacement spouts for water cans" that look suspiciously like the old gas spouts.

> I hate spilling gas every time I load the lawnmower tank.

I finally got fed up enough with my gas mower that I switched to an Ego electric mower. No, it doesn't cut as well as my Honda did, but it cuts well enough, and not dealing with gas makes the experience so much more pleasant.

For reference, I'm mowing fescue grass in NC, have a sloped yard on the side and in back, and it takes me about 45 minutes to mow the entire property. I use the mulching blades and don't bother bagging. I usually have about 15-20% battery left when I'm done. I've only mowed one season so far. I don't recharge till the day I mow so I'm not storing the battery at 100%.

Ego electric lawn products are very good.

Ego products are great. I just wish the batteries were a bit less expensive.

I've used EGO mower and weed eater for 3 years. Very similar use case as yours. It was a great decision in hindsight. I also love how quiet they are compared to gas equipment.

Same - except i went with Makitas, since I own a number of their other tools. Decent mower for my small lawn. The unexpected bonus was when breaking down the price, it's like I paid $400 for the 4 large 18v 6a batteries and charging station, and got the mower for free. Batteries work great with other tools.

Highly recommend going electric

There's a company selling new metal cans and an optional 'for amusement only' long flexible spout. They've got a better CARB/EPA compliant spout than the plastic cans, too, but it still leaks more fuel than the amusing spout.

I much prefer the cap design. All mine were connected to the can so you would not lose them. I did ones time forget it was open and ended up dumping a bunch of diesel on myself. The nice part of the cap design is you can widen the hole slightly and get a much faster poor where most Air tube designs are small and incredibly slow.

I always assumed the internal plastic cap on my plastic containers was to avoid fumes escaping or something like that.

Also the ergonomics of my plastic container and spout are pretty great / look better than the jerrycan for my use.

"For example, instead of an air pipe to allow smooth pouring, there's a separate cap which has to be unscrewed, and then the cap is inevitably lost."

Unfortunately, the propensity to lose the cap IS the design feature - you will likely want to buy another container.

Edward Bernais effectively re-engineered engineering. What is the point of creating something great that works for years? Far better to get people to splash out more often for an inferior item, that is sold in a better way.

Similar dark patterns are now everywhere, e.g. now most phones are with irremovable batteries. Someone might argue that is to make phones thinner by remove the back cap. Unfortunately that was not the case, I did see some phone with removable back cap but the battery is still fixed.

They are a bit thinner because non-replaceable batteries don't have rigid plastic shell.

Get a VP Fuel can. They don’t stack well but they are dead simple. The spout is just a hose. We use them at the track and never spill more than a drop.

The other option is removing the spring from the newer press-on spouts. They all have a o ring that adds enough tension to keep the spout closed even without the spring. So then you can push it in to open, and leave it open, or pull it out until it locks and keep it closed.

It's always something. I bought one with so much crap on the spout, I couldn't (wouldn't) figure it out. Some spring-loaded dojigger that had to be pressed to open it - maybe hook that on the tank rim? That seemed to work until the weight of the can broke the hook clean off. So I took it all off and poured straight from the can, which isn't so hard.

Also, there was a cone-shaped filter inside the can! So I couldn't fill the can except at sublight speed, dribbling gas in so it didn't overwhelm the filter. What a crock. A pliers ripped that out - simple solution there.

Engineers! Please stop re-inventing the gas can!

I hated the spring-loaded spouts until I learned the trick: you have to actuate them once to release gas before you actually starting pouring. Haven't spilled a drop since.

I finally worked out that breathing the nasty smoke from my 20 year old mower with worn rings was making me feel like shit for days and causing intermittent tiny epididymal cysts to form which were causing excruciating pain when I got erect.

So I’m now paying someone else to spill fuel all over themselves and breathe their own mower fumes.

Been two months and I can now regularly get an erecting without crippling pain, and the constant ache has subsided to noticeable only.

Urologist, and myself, were reluctant to operate because the cysts were 2mm which is tiny.

Engine exhaust is a known carcinogen for oestrogen sensitively cancers often relating to breast, uterus, ovaries, bladder, stomach, testicles.

I don’t recall who it was that said here in Australia: lawns are the green cancer that’s chocking the nation.

Small engine exhaust like lawnmowers have to catalytic converter, the fumes are super dangerous.

Wow, that’s something. Sounds like you were lucky to figure out that pertol fumes were so dangerous to you.

Makes you wonder how many small engine repair techs, snow mobile or motorcycle riders, etc are just falling over dead.

Came here for this sentiment. Modern plastic gas cans with their safety nozzles are the bane of my existence. I discovered you can buy legit jerry cans online and will never go back.

My spout has on two occasions, come off completely and ended up inside the tank! Looking at it, this shouldn't be possible, but it somehow happened.

But the separate air vent works so much better than the spouts with an integrated air pipe. The cap normally has a tether so it doesn't get lost.

The tether soon broke on all my cans, and I was careful with them.

You should buy one of the original design cans on eBay. I just checked and they are around $35 (but another $20+ for shipping!).

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