Jerrycan | Hacker News Reader

Jerrycan

en.wikipedia.org

272 pointsbrudgers155 comments

So, the Germans made a can that was easy to fill, easy to carry, easy to stack, didn't leak and didn't break easily.

Then the Americans copied it and made a can that leaked (because it didn't have the recessed seam of the original) and needed tools (spanner and funnel) to fill.

The British had an early version that split in transport, punctured easily, leaked a quarter of the fuel they carried over rough roads and "gave vehicles a propensity to catch fire" (!) but when they saw the German design they immediately cottonned-on and made several improvements (cam lever cap release, air pocket and air pipe for smooth flow, gasket to leak-proof the mouth).

Finally, the Russians copied the German design, presumably without changes.

There is a deep lesson in all of this about the engineering practices, or perhaps the engineering traditions, of different nations. I'm sure there is.

I just can't get past the "gave vehicles a propensity to catch fire" bit.

And the French developed a 2.5 gallon version for wine: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-1955-military...

Every British tank has tea-making gear:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_vessel

* https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/this-is-why-every-ar...

At first I smirked when I read your American bit... but then I wondered... what if those were design choices?

For example, what if someone figured out the average sit-time of gasoline in the jerrycan, the average fault rate and leak rate of the lesser seam, and the average production time and lifespan of the jerrycan - then decided the sometimes leakier version was better because it was lighter, more quickly manufactured, etc?

And then perhaps American soldiers were more likely to pilfer gasoline for joy-rides or bartering, or to steal and sell the jerrycans themselves to their liberated friends and lovers, or for some other reason these cans were more likely to be "lost" as the Wikipedia article vaguely mentions - thus, make the can useless without the spanner and funnel, so as to make it a little less tempting for an improper owner to run off with?

Maybe?

Just thinking out loud.

But these questions reminded me just how fascinating everyday objects can be.

I highly recommend:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/130748.The_Pencil

for a fascinating look at a universals object. Petroski's other books are quite insightful and illuminating as well.

It's amazing how much clever engineering went into such a simple device.

And how much it is forgotten today. I have a couple 5 gallon plastic gas containers. They are terrible in comparison. For example, instead of an air pipe to allow smooth pouring, there's a separate cap which has to be unscrewed, and then the cap is inevitably lost.

Modern ones have this spring-loaded spout, which is supposed to prevent spillage. It inevitably causes spillage, because the spring is so strong you cannot regulate the flow, and the tank fills too fast and overflows. I hate spilling gas every time I load the lawnmower tank.

> I have a couple 5 gallon plastic gas containers. They are terrible in comparison.

There are terrible designs everywhere: read The Design of Everyday Things by Don Norman.

Heck, even doors: the moment you have to put signs that say "push" and "pull" on a door you know it's a terrible design. Have a look at product reviews on American's Test Kitchen's YouTube channel, and things as 'simple' as spatulas and cooking pans can be have bad designs.

If you want old-school design "jerry cans", checkout Wavian for metal options:

* https://wavianusa.com/collections/nato-fuel-cans

For plastic (HDPE ) options in the same design language see Scepter:

* https://www.scepter.com/products/consumer-products/

Comparison discussion between the two:

* https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/scepter-mfc-vs-wa...

  > Heck, even doors: the moment you have to put signs that say "push" and "pull" on a door you know it's a terrible design.

I recently pulled on a push door that had a pull handle. One of the condescending managers there asked if I could read. I answered that I always pull before I push to avoid merge conflicts. I have no idea if he understood.

why no rebase?

Because they’re Mercurial.

Non-clever response: https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/RebaseExtension

I had to fight my metal-over-plastic instinct when it came to jerrycans. I've seen some metal ones rust internally and affect the stored liquid. Plastic ones are color coded which is another boon. They're lighter, and you can get them smaller than 20L.

Edit: some of the plastic designs get a bit excited with the molding and have fancy shapes. They look like they stack with other cans of the same brand. There are probably other benefits to their nice designs. But otherwise keep them rectangular and close to the original shape if carrying many/using them in frames designed for jerrycans (e.g. external storage on a 4WD).

We can't get Scepter MFC cans in the US, I've searched extensively. Not sure if that's due to California CARB or the federal save the children rules. We can overpay on ebay to buy them second hand from Canada though. It's a shame because I'd love to have a durable can that doesn't spill and leak like crazy like the newer ones. I'll probably try the Wavians, but plastic cans are superior to metal for my intended use so it's a compromise.

I got one on eBay. It says for military use only. So far I haven't been pulled over with it in my trunk.

> Heck, even doors: the moment you have to put signs that say "push" and "pull" on a door you know it's a terrible design.

As we get more and more doors whose design directly contradicts the action required to open the door, at some point the most robust design needs to include the “push” or “pull” sign because people know that nothing else about the door’s design is a reliable indication of the required action.

Oh yes, I read and have a copy of Norman's book. Every engineer should read it.

MidwayUSA makes these for HarborFreight now - https://www.harborfreight.com/5-gallon-jerry-can-99551.html

It advertises an "automatic shutoff". This may be the same wretched gas-spilling device on my gas can.

Buy a Wavian and the One True(TM) nozzle: https://armysurpluswarehouse.com/wavian-jerry-can-nozzle/

Also do a search for "shaker siphon" and "pump siphon". You may not have to use a nozzle for everything.

It is an automatic shutoff. You can always swap the spout/nozzle.

Do not buy a wavian. I have two wavians and they're absolutely terrible Jerry cans. Let me explain why. The wavian safety spout is absolutely terrible and the crux of the entire shitty UX that is this Jerry can. I have no idea what they were thinking. When you attach the spout it forms a seal by pressure as set by the clamping mechanism. This is a problem and I'll explain why in a minute. The spout works on a design that if you apply pressure, it will retract (like foreskin) and allow fuel to exit the spout. These two combined make a massive design flaw. Imagine you're filling up a lawn mower. You insert your spout into the gas inlet on the lawnmower. Now what? Two options. Press hard as hell into your lawnmower so the spout allows fuel to flow, or, try and retract the spout using your third hand. I can now no longer do either of these because the spout retraction is so damn stiff, the pressure I exert causes the seal to break that I mentioned earlier, the one that is created when you first attach the safety spout and latch it in place. You now have gas coming from two places. Top this off with the fact that my safety spout is now so stiff it sticks open, and it's a completely unsafe and useless Jerry can that I will recommend against until I die. This has happened on BOTH of my cans, and my father's, and my brother in law's. We all bought them from Costco a little while back. I'm tempted to upload a YouTube video of just how unsafe these Jerry cans are.

I bought two of the metal ones and they're terrible. The mechanism on the spout that allows it to retract is so stiff that it's basically a struggle to fill a lawnmower tank because you have to hold it back as the gas starts pouring out. Since the egress is round, you're bound to spill before you get it into the hole. If you don't hold it back you have to press it so hard into the lawnmower it starts leaking around the seal at the base. Idk how anyone can tolerate these cans.

> I bought two of the metal ones and they're terrible. […] a struggle to fill a lawnmower tank […]

Jerrycans (20L) were designed for semi-bulk filling of large-ish vehicles, not for low-volume top-ups of small-engine appliances. Perhaps you bought the wrong tool?

You can thank the US government for that, it's a federal requirement on all new gas canisters. It's supposedly to prevent accidental gas spillage but in my experience it makes the problem far worse. You can still find traditional spouts, but don't use them for gas they're for water only ;)

My current batch of fuel containers are all from Justrite.

They're expensive, but I don't have any issues with leaks. I have a 1-gallon for 2-stoke fuel, a 5-gallon for the gas mower, and another 5-gallon in yellow for diesel.

https://www.justrite.com/type-ii-accuflow-steel-safety-can-f...

I've had Wavians for a couple years. In our lake community, we get compliments about our gas cans. It's amazing how people respond when you build something well.

That is an excellent YouTube channel, the reviews in particular. Thank you.

You can thank an overly specific EPA regulation for the terrible spouts.

https://ezpourspout.com/why-gas-can-spouts-changed/

You can still get the old style spout in Canada. There are also companies that sell "replacement spouts for water cans" that look suspiciously like the old gas spouts.

> I hate spilling gas every time I load the lawnmower tank.

I finally got fed up enough with my gas mower that I switched to an Ego electric mower. No, it doesn't cut as well as my Honda did, but it cuts well enough, and not dealing with gas makes the experience so much more pleasant.

For reference, I'm mowing fescue grass in NC, have a sloped yard on the side and in back, and it takes me about 45 minutes to mow the entire property. I use the mulching blades and don't bother bagging. I usually have about 15-20% battery left when I'm done. I've only mowed one season so far. I don't recharge till the day I mow so I'm not storing the battery at 100%.

Same - except i went with Makitas, since I own a number of their other tools. Decent mower for my small lawn. The unexpected bonus was when breaking down the price, it's like I paid $400 for the 4 large 18v 6a batteries and charging station, and got the mower for free. Batteries work great with other tools.

Highly recommend going electric

Ego products are great. I just wish the batteries were a bit less expensive.

I've used EGO mower and weed eater for 3 years. Very similar use case as yours. It was a great decision in hindsight. I also love how quiet they are compared to gas equipment.

Ego electric lawn products are very good.

There's a company selling new metal cans and an optional 'for amusement only' long flexible spout. They've got a better CARB/EPA compliant spout than the plastic cans, too, but it still leaks more fuel than the amusing spout.

I much prefer the cap design. All mine were connected to the can so you would not lose them. I did ones time forget it was open and ended up dumping a bunch of diesel on myself. The nice part of the cap design is you can widen the hole slightly and get a much faster poor where most Air tube designs are small and incredibly slow.

I always assumed the internal plastic cap on my plastic containers was to avoid fumes escaping or something like that.

Also the ergonomics of my plastic container and spout are pretty great / look better than the jerrycan for my use.

"For example, instead of an air pipe to allow smooth pouring, there's a separate cap which has to be unscrewed, and then the cap is inevitably lost."

Unfortunately, the propensity to lose the cap IS the design feature - you will likely want to buy another container.

Edward Bernais effectively re-engineered engineering. What is the point of creating something great that works for years? Far better to get people to splash out more often for an inferior item, that is sold in a better way.

Similar dark patterns are now everywhere, e.g. now most phones are with irremovable batteries. Someone might argue that is to make phones thinner by remove the back cap. Unfortunately that was not the case, I did see some phone with removable back cap but the battery is still fixed.

They are a bit thinner because non-replaceable batteries don't have rigid plastic shell.

Get a VP Fuel can. They don’t stack well but they are dead simple. The spout is just a hose. We use them at the track and never spill more than a drop.

The other option is removing the spring from the newer press-on spouts. They all have a o ring that adds enough tension to keep the spout closed even without the spring. So then you can push it in to open, and leave it open, or pull it out until it locks and keep it closed.

It's always something. I bought one with so much crap on the spout, I couldn't (wouldn't) figure it out. Some spring-loaded dojigger that had to be pressed to open it - maybe hook that on the tank rim? That seemed to work until the weight of the can broke the hook clean off. So I took it all off and poured straight from the can, which isn't so hard.

Also, there was a cone-shaped filter inside the can! So I couldn't fill the can except at sublight speed, dribbling gas in so it didn't overwhelm the filter. What a crock. A pliers ripped that out - simple solution there.

Engineers! Please stop re-inventing the gas can!

I hated the spring-loaded spouts until I learned the trick: you have to actuate them once to release gas before you actually starting pouring. Haven't spilled a drop since.

I finally worked out that breathing the nasty smoke from my 20 year old mower with worn rings was making me feel like shit for days and causing intermittent tiny epididymal cysts to form which were causing excruciating pain when I got erect.

So I’m now paying someone else to spill fuel all over themselves and breathe their own mower fumes.

Been two months and I can now regularly get an erecting without crippling pain, and the constant ache has subsided to noticeable only.

Urologist, and myself, were reluctant to operate because the cysts were 2mm which is tiny.

Engine exhaust is a known carcinogen for oestrogen sensitively cancers often relating to breast, uterus, ovaries, bladder, stomach, testicles.

I don’t recall who it was that said here in Australia: lawns are the green cancer that’s chocking the nation.

Small engine exhaust like lawnmowers have to catalytic converter, the fumes are super dangerous.

Wow, that’s something. Sounds like you were lucky to figure out that pertol fumes were so dangerous to you.

Makes you wonder how many small engine repair techs, snow mobile or motorcycle riders, etc are just falling over dead.

Came here for this sentiment. Modern plastic gas cans with their safety nozzles are the bane of my existence. I discovered you can buy legit jerry cans online and will never go back.

My spout has on two occasions, come off completely and ended up inside the tank! Looking at it, this shouldn't be possible, but it somehow happened.

But the separate air vent works so much better than the spouts with an integrated air pipe. The cap normally has a tether so it doesn't get lost.

The tether soon broke on all my cans, and I was careful with them.

You should buy one of the original design cans on eBay. I just checked and they are around $35 (but another $20+ for shipping!).

It's amazing what impact something that seems that simple on the surface can have on something as complex as a theater of war. From the article:

> Such was the importance of the cans in the war effort that the President Roosevelt administration noted "Without these cans it would have been impossible for our armies to cut their way across France at a lightning pace...

Good engineering, even in the simplest things, can have a huge impact.

Especially when you consider

> A battalion could use almost a hundred gallons (about 450 litres) of fuel per day in making tea.

Via the Wikipedia pages on the Benghazi burner

Amazing that Roosevelt gave consideration to even such a tiny detail; but then it seems, that the jerrcan was developed upon specifications of hitler himself. (Couldn't find any more details than this)

[1] https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/the-astonishing-story-of-...

[2] https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81...

[3] https://aif.ru/society/history/pochemu_u_toplivnoy_kanistry_...

Slight tangent here, but back when I owned a 1995 BMW 525i I discovered while browsing a parts catalog that BMW had developed a special emergency fuel jerry can[0] that slots into the spare wheel. The can was flat bottomed but the sides curved to fit inside the spare wheel (it was a full sized wheel back then) and it had a removable metal hose that clipped on the top when not in use. It was a fantastic piece of design. It held 9 litres if I recall correctly, so it wasn’t too heavy to carry when full (of course, you store it empty, and if you run out of fuel you take the empty can to the nearest fuel stop and fill up there).

I was lucky to find one on eBay that was in new condition, and I kept the can when I traded in my BMW for another BMW, unfortunately my current car uses runflats and hence no spare wheel, so I just keep my jerry can in the garage.

[0] https://classics.pt/images/artigos/deposito-roda-suplente-9l...

If you like browsing BMW parts catalog, you may find an external spare tire mount that goes under trunk for your car.

I was surprised when I found one for my run-flat MINI Cabrio (MINI is BMW).

Who can drink 5 liters of petrol and not become ill? Jerry can

This right here.

Is there a name for the effect where there is a superior product X, everyone who uses it agrees that X is superior (to the point of acquiring their own personal X's when they can), but when shown to those responsible for procurement, they say "I don't get it" and continue to order the same old thing?

I'm specifically thinking of cases where it's not corruption causing the purchases, but plain-old incompetence.

You might be interested in the concept of 'satisficing'. A product needs to be significantly better to replace an existing product that is satisfactory.

Your point is slightly different though and can be seen with M16 still being the assault rifle of choice in the US military even though it's not as good as other products by most measures. That's more the IBM effect where the agent deciding which option to buy has nothing to gain by challenging the status quo. If IBM fails, it's not your fault. If you choose something else and it fails, it's your fault. Success won't be recognized either way so the obvious choice for a purchase is IBM.

It's interesting because the difference between the jerrican and existing cans were lots of small affordances that add up: fewer tools needed and easier to move around. In the end, soldiers will find a way to put gas in vehicles, so there's never a problem from the strategic view even though several small efficiencies can add up to a big difference both for a single person gassing up a tank and then multiplied by the number of tanks that are involved in warfare.

When OS X came out about 20 years ago, the UI was so much better than Linux desktop environments of the time. I think that is a relatively uncontroversial view, but try fitting the differences between them into a checkbox-style acquisition table and they both use the basic WIMP interface; the obvious differences (icon dock, global menu bar) are if anything something that people moving from Linux to Mac dislike about it, yet those same people will tell you that the overall experience is better.

I'm imagine sunken costs fallacy applies too with the costs being tooling, supply lines, etc. Changing from smooth tin cans to stamped steel cans with internal liners does require a substantial investment in new tooling.

That's called "central planning". Central planners simply can't collect the right information anywhere near quickly enough to make efficient decisions.

Modern computing means it works for quantifiable things. But when it's something like inconvenience, it's hard to quantify and central planning will still fail.

Why are people so ignorant of the discipline of optimization? If you know it's within some interval you can just so robust optimization, if even that fact is unknown there is distributionally robust optimization.

Central planners don't need perfect information either and infrastructure is more easily build to accommodate a central planner then a market of spatially distributed decision makers.

If you find optimization to authoritarian try multi-objective optimization where people vote where on the Pareto front they want to go.

Can you provide an example of how that would have resulted in better gas cans for the allies earlier?

Can you provide an explanation how getting better gas cans to the front line was not "Central planning" during a war time command economy? Or how more market forces on the German side lead to the right information being discovered quickly enough to make efficient decisions while it didn´t in the others countries?

Another significant but unnoted design feature is the ability to pass a strap through multiple jerrycans in a row. Essential for mounting them externally to Humvees and MATVs.

Related article and discussion from 11 years ago: "The Wehrmachtkanister, a/k/a Jerrycan: Astonishingly good industrial design from the 1930s" [1]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2692840

Somebody is going to name their software product "Jerrycan" in 2022.

I fully expected this to link to a software project of some sort. Apache Jerrycan sounds like a convincing software I would believe existed.

Edit: I was surprised to learn that jerrycan.js does not exist either.

Will it carry "gas" for a cryptocurrency?

Isn’t that Ethereum only terminology?

I honestly have no idea.

Upcoming NFT/dAP based SASS built on ethereum.

Protip: In video games, if you shoot the red ones they explode.

:-) This is one of these fake physics things that action movies and video games have put into our heads. In reality if you shoot a fuel can it will likely just leak out of the hole and maybe, if you’re lucky, a spark will be created that lights the fuel leaking out on fire.

It almost certainly won’t “explode” as there’s no oxidizer in the can apart from a bit of air. Tannerite does explode on shooting but that’s because it’s a precise mixture of fuel and oxidizer that reacts easily on high speed compression.

A near empty can may approach stoichiometric ratios though! Gas is combustible.

I know this is a tangent to the topic at hand, but this reminded me of an interesting video I felt compelled to share.

It’s a video on the history of explosive barrels in video games https://youtu.be/LMYEE8lvlvA

I knew this would be the Ahoy video before clicking. He makes some really excellent videos and nearly all of them would be at home on HN.

Here's some pictures of what the US millitary replaced the Jerrycan with (A-A-59592 B):

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=A%2DA%2D59592%20B&t...

> The National Stock Number is 7240-00-222-3088. It is considered obsolete by a new A-A-59592 B specification, having been replaced with high-density polyethylene versions.

A website with the scope and original development documents for the replacement of the traditional jerrycan (plenty of military bureaucracy went into this too): https://quicksearch.dla.mil/qsDocDetails.aspx?ident_number=2...

Wavian is the way to go for a metal can. Scepter is good but was banned and parts are expensive (In the US, Canadians have the freedom to buy from Canadian Tire). VP racing jugs are fantastic for plastic. You can get them much cheaper at tractor supply as they are sold for farm liquids, not for fuel, but they are exactly the same thing as the VP racing jugs. I used wavian for diesel, VP racing for gas or E85 when racing. Now they're all gas for my generator.

Great tip on the sourcing! It's Also I was looking this source seemed cheapest I could find online.

Do you have any info/opinion on the lining they use?

https://www.roverparts.com/off-road-accessories/jerry-cans/G...

Those look like wavian licensed nato cans so should be the same red anti rust coating inside. I’d trust them. Easiest way to tell if real is the seam weld. If the seam weld is tucked it’s real, if you go to set them down and the seam weld is sitting on the ground they are knock off garbage. Reason being it’s much harder to seam weld the real way wavian cans are made.

The board game “The Campaign for North Africa” famously models the differences (along with requiring the Italian player to carry extra water for pasta).

It’s possible nobody has ever actually finished a play through.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Campaign_for_North_Afric...

We had some power outages last year so I bought a generator. I had to buy three different jerry cans before I found one that was compatible with the fuel vapor reclamation systems that are on modern gas pumps (or at least all the pumps near me). Basically, if the fuel pump nozzle can't create a (near) air tight seal on the jerry can, it won't dispense fuel because it needs vacuum pressure to reclaim the vapor. Most jerry cans now have a mesh filter or some other kind of impediment inside the nozzle that is usually there for a good reason, but often prevents a seal of the fuel pump nozzle.

If you're thinking about getting a generator, get a compatible jerry can before the emergency.

In the US, this varies by state.

Some states require vapor recovery nozzles, some do not.

Some states allow a latching valve trigger, some do not.

Some states allow you pump your own gas, some (until recently at least) do not.

...

Not sure if this is still true (I no longer live in a vapor recovery state!) but you used to be able to trick the sensors by pushing the recovery hood back with one hand before pulling the valve trigger with the other. This might even be an intentional bypass for filling containers?

When I fill my motorcycles I hold the hood back. The fill hole is too large for the hood to work anyway and if I insert the nozzle all the way I would end up with less than half a tank of gas.

> you used to be able to trick the sensors by pushing the recovery hood back with one hand before pulling the valve trigger with the other. This might even be an intentional bypass for filling containers?

Good tip, I actually asked a couple of gas station attendants and they had no idea how to get around it. I'll give it a shot with one of the cans I wasn't able to fill.

This is a USA only problem. In the rest of the world, a gas (petrol) pump will happily dispense into a bathtub if you want it to...

Yes, it used to work that way here. I don't believe it's USA only though, this environmental protection system appears to be used in Canada as well. Apparently these systems aren't needed any longer as vehicles built since 2006 have vapor recovery systems built in (which is also why it's detrimental to your vehicle to "top up" your fuel tank now).

>(which is also why it's detrimental to your vehicle to "top up" your fuel tank now)

Could you expand on this a bit?

I'm not sure if this is an interaction with the vapor recovery on the fuel pump nozzle, but topping up on some vehicles will introduce liquid fuel to the fuel vapor charcoal canister in the emissions system of the vehicle.

It's not able to readily purge the liquid fuel and can case emissions codes and replacement of the fuel vapor canister can be needed to remedy.

Yes, as the other comment explained... because fuel vapor recovery is now built in to newer vehicles, you should no longer "top up" your tank. Some people add a little more fuel after the pump stops the first time -- this is referred to as "topping up" your tank. That extra fuel goes into the charcoal canister and may require premature maintenance costs/time.

And not sure if it an issue across all of America. I saw a video of a man who had lined his pick up trunk bed with plastic sheeting and was filling it with fuel before driving off. I assume there was no vacuum there? Unless it was a fake video? https://youtu.be/CbTfmI7XCTQ

Top comment on the video says it's likely faked :)

Usually if you manually hold back the vapor guard, the gas pump will still work. I know this because you have to do it to fill most motorcycles because their tanks aren't designed to fit the vapor guard, much less have it create a seal.

In 2022, this story would have ended with....

And the proprietary "Jerry" can, made by Jerry Corp was patented. When the company that made it suffered financial difficulties, production stopped and no more cans were ever made, due to the patent.

Nah, thats 2015. 2022 would be like your jerry can is now accessible via our mobile app, with live updates on levels, there is a 20mp camera on top to see who is using the jerry can. You can now pre-order by purchasing an NFT. Oh btw accept the privacy policy and also we will share the specifics of the cam feed and your jerry can contents to our partners. If you use it with any prohibited substance we will remote lock it.

It says

> The stamped indentations on the sides serve two purposes: to stiffen the side sheet metal and to allow greater area for expansion and contraction of the contents with heat and cold

How does it do that?

Same principle behind corrugated steel / I-Beams, C-Beams, cardboard.

If you fold a piece of paper like an accordion, you'll find it's much harder to bend the paper along one axis but the parallel axis is easy.

Notice the indentations on the jerrycan are in perpendicular directions (they look like an X).

The cam-tightening metal caps on these are so satisfying to open and close. Fond memories of mowing the lawn / nearly burning myself to pieces playing with gasoline.

Some even transforms them to servers: https://youandjerrycan.org/

But you could make anything a server if it can fit an esp8266

One of the footnoted articles here is a fun read:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070524182038/http://www.americ...

Wavian makes good Jerrycans. They were severely backlogged during covid. I have a few that I keep with each of my vehicles.

https://wavianusa.com/

I did not know much Jerrycan at all before reading the article. But nonetheless when last time I was in a hardware store trying to get a fuel can, I took Jerrycan in the first glance from whole bunch of different styles.

I was wondering why there were 3 handle bars on top though, since I only need a couple of them and thus no stacking needed.

So two people can share the load! (walking side by side, can between them, one arm each)

And you can carry two empties in one hand.

Military design is fascinating: because they have such a huge number of testers, small details like the expansion indents and the dual-purpose handles evolve.

Today I see these lashed to the sides of Suburban Assault Vehicles all over town, typically paired with a Roof Tent, an axe, a shovel, and an engine snorkel (and a pristine paint job).

You can always tell a never-off off-road vehicle by not a spec of dirt on the brightly painted differential.

Who hasn't spraypainted fake-carc right over that gas-dust that collects in the handles?

On the other hand, people might just occasionally clean their vehicles.

Unless you repaint it that will just show all the scratches. It is hard to spend time off road without scratching paint.

If you mean literally driving off any road through bushes or something, maybe.

But the vehicle described above just sounds like an average camping setup (aside from the snorkel) that doesn't need to get scratched up to get used. Although I think rooftop tents are pointless.

Including the differential? Very rare.

Your original comment was just facially wrong to begin with. A diff cover is gonna get nice and dirty with just normal road use.

Vehicle undersides should get washed fairly regularly anywhere there's road salt. People tend to wash off mud too because it traps moisture and causes corrosion (slower than salt though).

> should

Yah, who does that? 1 in a thousand? And if you drive through a car wash, nary a squirt is directed at the underside.

The real offroaders have filthy vehicles.

Besides, pressure washing the underside is a risky thing to do:

1. it drives off the grease and oil, which protect it from rusting

2. the pressure can dislodge wires and other things

3. it can force water into cavities and gaps where it can cause trouble

4. it can erode gaskets

5. the bottom of the car has drain holes, pressure washing will force dirty water up into the cab

You’re going to shitty car washes if they can’t clean your undercarriage. Undercarriage wash is the first $2 upgrade you can pick at the big one near me.

Older folks in India still refer to these as Jerrycans. We used to use them to hold kerosene when I was a kid.

Aren’t they called jerrycans everywhere? Im from India too, I never heard an alternate name here.

> The British used cans captured from the "Jerries" (Germans) – hence "jerrycans"

Wouldn't that make them "Krautcans" ? I thought that "Kraut" was more common as a derogative for Germans.

Reading the etymological link [0] from Wikipedia I have an idea that it comes from a diminutive form of the first syllable to the word German. This English StackExchange answer [1] seems to conceptually back me up a bit, calling it hypocorism [2]:

English forms nicknames in a variety of manners. Shortening, often to the first syllable . . . . Addition of the diminutive suffix, usually -ie or -y. It is often added to the end of an already shortened name. This suffix connotes smallness or endearment.

I'm certain someone will object to the idea of soldiers having a term of "endearment" for the "enemy," and so I'll stress "smallness" rather than using a name with MAN in it.

0. https://www.etymonline.com/word/Jerry

1. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/8767/changes-in-...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocorism

Strange that the Germans were calling the British 'tommies' in return - even during the first world war; and that was one frigging war with flame throwers and poison gas!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Atkins

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_(Soldat)

(Well, jerrycan just sounds better than krautcan or huncan; Even on this German site you are bying jerrycans [1] and not Wehrmacht-Einheitskanister; Still, in contemporary German the word Kanister is more often used than Jerrycan)

[1] https://www.kfzteile.net/angebote/?utm_term=jerrycan&q=jerry...

I don't know if it was a derogative/pejorative? I always thought Jerry was just shorthand slang similar as Brit was to the British and Yanks to American's , Aussies to Australians ...even prior to WW2 (Germany -> Jerry) ?

https://www.quora.com/Do-Germans-find-the-word-Jerry-offensi...

Fortunately Germans and their descendents are fairly well-off, otherwise we'd have to come up with an alternative word for jerrycan that doesn't contain an ethnic slur.

Eh. I feel like that diminishes why hurtful names fall out of favor. I also think while it's interesting slang, I wouldn't lose sleep if it was replaced. To your point, afaik it hasn't really been used as hurtful slang since the war.

I can't speak for the world, but in my experience descendants of Jews are fairly well-off and there's quite a few slang words people don't use anymore.

I don't think Jerry is a slur as much as a slang demonym like "Tommy" was for British soldiers. I think "kraut" would be closer to a slur but I don't know how that's received - it seems too quaint to be offensive in my eyes.

I've been at the receiving end of stuff like that. Here's how it works. If the phrase is meant to make the recipient feel like a target, or feel inferior, and it does, then it's a slur. It's highly contextual.

If you peel things back a layer, it's all about someone being made "other." This is why some people in 2021 who tell themselves they are standing against racism read just like the racists who bashed me when I was young: They are the ones self-righteously justified in demoting someone from full human status. Yes, racists often convince themselves they are making the world a better place! It's that aspect that's key!

One doesn't fight othering by targeting a fellow human being as "other." One doesn't fight hate by promulgating more hate. The right side of history is about empathy, compassion, and convincing. The wrong side tries to disguise the opposite of the above as compassion.

Yeah obviously offense is derived in part from intent as well as historical and current cultural usage. I don't think anyone is shouting "damned Jerry!" while spitting at Germans in the street though. There are plenty of words in the world that are used that way, that we should be concerned about and avoid using (and criticise/educate others for using, depending on usage). At the end of the day it all comes back to "don't abuse people".

Keep this in mind, if you see people abusing others in pursuit of political goals.

In the context of 1930, you would expect that any such name for the Germans would tick most of those boxes. However, "Jerry" still doesn't feel like a slur.

I'm not talking about the omniscient, timeless textual context. I'm talking about the people when the slur is being spoken and heard, and the community in which they live.

As a German, I find "kraut" more amusing than offensive. I can only speak for myself, of course, but I think a majority of Germans would find the term more humorous than anything else.

Full disclosure, though, I like Sauerkraut a lot, which might play into it.

This is good to know, jerry always felt short for German even if it actually comes from first WW1 helmets.

I've always been a little conflicted by kraut though, e.g. when talking about Krautrock so I'm glad it's mostly seen as humorous[1].

Personally, I find the terms limey or rosbif as terms for us Brits quite funny too for similar reasons.

Growing up I've had Irish people apologise to me for others calling me a "Brit".

This was doubly funny to me at the time as both my friend and "insulter" both really thought of it as a pretty bad insult.

Still makes me smile today, I mean it's what we call ourselves. :D

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krautrock

Counterpoint, calling any Vietnamese person Charlie is very offensive.

Most Vietnamese in America are from South Vietnam or descended from those from there, so that's probably one of the bigger reasons for their offense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Nguyen

Which is kinda strange since the VC were very effective.

The NVA won the war eventually

The VC didn’t call themselves VC. Any Vietnamese person you meet in the US today is unlikely to be “VC”. It’s like calling Germans Nazis.

Declaring a name “offensive” to an entire race of people is a stereotype and also offensive.

It's a very short hop from the word Ger(man) to Jerr(y)

Just because you don't like this person's comment doesn't mean it's incorrect. Try and keep an open mind. But I don't agree that it's due to being "well off". If it were called a "Japcan" there would be backlash.

I have one I use for my diesel heater. I only ever fill it half way up though, as walking more than a minute with it full to the brim is a painful affair.

> walking more than a minute with it full to the brim is a painful affair

British Army fitness test is walking 240m for 4 minutes carrying two full cans, plus assault kit and rifle!

You need a partner to use its two-man mode!

I carried one with a friend, and this functionality didn't help that much, we still had to take turns. Especially on a narrow towpath.

They're made of steel? I've never seen one in real life, so I assumed they were made of plastic.

I’m late to the party here, but I’ve been thinking about gas cans lately and they almost universally have poor design. The safety cans have caused me more spills than any other because they have so many moving parts and leaky seals to match, so they end up dripping outside of whatever I’m trying to fill up. Gasoline+Living things=no more living things.

The best that I’ve come across are the TuffJug racing style jugs and the No-Spill safety jugs. The vent on both is built into the pouring nozzle and won’t leak if tipped. Pretty sure the seals will break down on them given enough time, but I know that at least TuffJug sells replacement o-rings. I’ve partly crushed a No-Spill under the wheel of a big ass truck and it didn’t leak a drop. I still use it too.

The Eagle safety cans are nice, but they’ll rust eventually.

HN front page really is a bit of a lottery. I posted it 2 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29071733 and it got 0 comments and 0 points.

There is an element of randomness for sure. A post or thread will become popular based on the timing and the first interactions and comments. Maybe your timing was off.

Also that is why I try my best to always comment in positive notes whenever I am the first person there. Even though it is easy to sound smart when you are being cynical but trying to see the positive sides may hep an OP feel good for the day :)

This makes perfect sense given that humans voting is involved and humans are not always consistent.

Yes. I'm stating with some surprise. Not complaining.

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