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Comment by tyingq | Hacker News Reader

>many EU modules started adding signature checking and encrypted updates in the late 2000s

Ah, yeah, and this is irritating if you're a used car owner, particularly an owner of a car that's now lower value. I can't, for example, pick up a cheap used throttle body for my older Volvo because the main ECU will reject it until someone from the stealership charges me a LOT of money to "program" it.

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This is unlikely to be related to encryption but just protectionism on an older vehicle. Generally speaking, until very recently (like 1-2 years ago), non-immobilizer related adaptation processes are just a matter of finding the correct UDS remoteRoutine to invoke, and aren't cryptographically protected at all. It's likely that the thing you're missing is the diagnostic documentation for the correct routine invocations to send, rather than keys or certificates.

Although, unfortunately this too is changing, starting in the 2021 model year VW AG have introduced a rather evil technology called SFD which requires server-signed tokens to perform these kinds of basic adaptations. This is all being done in the name of anti-theft security.

We really need better right-to-repair rules for vehicles.

Seeing the amount of part theft in Stockholm I understand why they do it. Particularly steering wheels, they steal them and send them to the baltics where they put them in vehicles where the airbag has fired.

I don't think they actually send them to baltics, as those are stolen from cars here also and they probably catch a better price in Stockholm anyway. Or sent a lot further than that.

The running "joke" is that insurers pay to put your original stuff back into car, as insurers somehow find "used" parts for mechanics.

The running joke is a joke indeed, we have accountability and traceability in our marvelous high-tax socialist haven, if you pay someone a significant amount it's VAT has to be tracked, parts can't just magically appear out of thin air, well maybe every now and then, but not systematically.

Edit: Especially airbags, they require special certifications to be installed and managed in Sweden, second hand airbags is NOT a thing here. Though other parts very well might be.

In my country, if your car is missing (say) a wingmirror, you can go to a 'scrap dealer' who has a yard full of written off cars, and they'll sell you a wingmirror taken off a scrapped car.

There isn't any greater authority, keeping track of every car part or ensuring the number of wingmirrors leaving stock matches the number legitimately entering stock.

We're not talking wingmirrors, we're talking interior. And it's different for cheap stuff one could pay cash, but cars are registered when they come in to the junkyard and parts sold are declared.

I'm not saying it can't happen every now and then, but it wouldn't work systematically.

Then you solve the problem in the baltics, not use it as excuse to turn your cars into "iphones"

You really think that is a realistic goal, for the car companies to solve crime in other countries?

Just as Apple can’t prevent abusive people from having the desire to track, stalk, and creep on their own family members, I don’t think you have a practical outlook or plan here.

The manufacturers do what they can, and they deserve all our respect for that, not derision.

Yet these big corporations spend billions of dollars lobbying the governments to their advantage every year. But when there is a practical problem, people like you come in here and throw their hands up "There is nothing we can do, but to lock our cars down"

What are you proposing, that Sweden invades in order to stop car part theft?

You know they are in the EU? Surely there are political tools to solve why there is a demand for stolen car parts in the Baltics

Just look at how many tailgates and catalysts are stolen from trucks in the US. That problem is not solvable by more law enforcement.

There isn't a demand for stolen car parts. There is a demand for cheeper/used car parts. This is in part due to lower salaries combined with people wanting to buy "cool" cars that are way over their budget hence they aren't able to afford new car parts for them.

And the only solution is lock our cars down and have no right to repair? And there is no question why something like this is happening within the EU? The union which is supposed to solve inequalities like this within its borders?

Lithuanian here.

It’s not inequality when instead of a cheap hatchback you NEED to buy BMW 5-Series or Porsche Macan. But you import a damaged one from US. And then you need a bunch of „used“ parts to repair it.

I mean it is inequality since the people they steal parts from can afford them, but it's not the kind of inequality we'd shed tears over.

Or different priorities. Why pick between a nice house and Porsche if you can repair a crashed Porsche with stolen parts and build a house paying workers under table and skipping few regulations here and there.

True Robin Hood, steal from the rich and give to the poor. Too bad it destroys so much capital every time.

Not our jurisdiction, and what could car manufacturers do?

Address the problem at the EU level because both Sweden and the Baltics are in it. This what the EU is for. But obviously it is much convenient to solve this the "Apple" way and claim that there was no other way...

Reintroducing border control would be a good 1st step. But gods forbid movement of „goods“ is endangered :)

I know of no state that controls their outbound goods, so it'd be on the countries benefiting from this to get more strict, not gonna happen.

Here in Lithuania we’re still checking cars leaving to Belarus to make sure they ain’t stolen. Random car papers checks on Poland/Lithuania border is still a thing too. Both to make sure Porsche stolen in Berlin last night don’t end up in Moscow 24 hours later.

Unfortunately it’s hard to check every boot for stolen headlights and steering wheels without border control

You havent seen Border Control: Europe by Discovery network. Border Control: Spain in particular often shows them stopping whole lorries loaded to the gills with stolen chopped up cars trying to cross to Morocco.

I mean while you invalidate my literal point, it's things leaving the EU. State<->state is quite uncommon is what my point should be.

:) https://www.interpol.int/en/News-and-Events/News/2020/Intern...

"Involving checks at border crossing points and in-land activities in 16 EU countries and five countries in the Balkan region"

This is possible, though it's essentially the same because the tools require an active "VIDA" subscription. So the ECU gatekeeps normal stuff with a high level blocker type thing. And, perhaps there are ways around it, but enough hassle to kill right-to-repair.

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