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Comment by ggm | Hacker News Reader

The increased exposure of risk to the consular staff is insignificant compared to normal life in the economy they're located in, and interviews could very easily be conducted in less harmful ways. Other (Judicial) processes including stat decs, evidence, cross examination all take place online when required. This is lie-detector class legalistic bullshit about f2f requirements. Specious.

This is a pretty bogus decision. But, not an unusual one. US consular services are notoriously finicky to deal with, as any applicant for a complex visa (Iranian nationals, indonensians) or citizenship/residency can attest.

(Not affected party in any way btw, I only go on what my friends who have dealt with US embassies and consulates tell me, and their stories are universally consistent)

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> “Coronavirus made me realize that in the US, if you’re not a member of the moneyed elite you’re left to fend for yourself with virtually no help from the federal government,” he said.

Most poignant quote in the article.

I am a US citizen and my passport renewal came up during the pandemic. I thought that's fine, I'm not traveling anyway. Well I am also a US citizen with the complexity of a sex change in my distant past. I've had the right passport decades ago.

After I sent in my routine renewal, I got a letter back saying that the US Department of State lost my old passport in processing. They wrote that I would need to send in seven pieces of identification, an explanation of why my passport was lost(!), have somebody come in person and vouch for me, in addition to a letter from a doctor confirming specific, very personal details of my sex change. I don't even have a doctor or health insurance, or seven IDs. It went back and forth in a humiliating, kafkaesque nightmare until I wrote them a letter saying I'm not sending anything more. My senator did not even give me the courtesy of a reply (bite me, Chuck Schumer, I bet your party will still talk about how you are God's gift to LGBTs).

> "I wish you the best of luck getting rid of that passport. Good riddance."

That was written by somebody below in this thread. I was trying to keep mine. Somebody told me that State Dept. has a backlog of a million passports. The American government, and administration, is utterly failing. Citizens at home cannot get basic services, meanwhile Biden is getting ready to play army in Asia again. I guess he never watched The Princess Bride.

Did they really ask for seven forms of ID? Exactly seven? In addition to your passport, you said they just lost it, did they say this in the letter? Did what they wrote say "7 ID's" or "seven ID's"? Not the same thing. Government-issued IDs right? Dual citizens only have six, they wanted your library card, your bus pass, like what are we talking about here? Did they give any examples of what you could provide? What do you propose they're trying to do, break a tie between the IDs of each gender (not kidding)? And you don't have a doctor. Or health insurance. But you're trans. Do you take no hormones then? You know what, as for the specific, very personal details of your sex change, I ask nothing.

> "I wish you the best of luck getting rid of that passport. Good riddance."

I wrote that. I thought of editing what I wrote for clarity. It doesn't mean what you think it means. Not good riddance of the passport. Good riddance of you as a citizen. Well I guess both. It's not pejorative, it's win-win. You don't want to have that passport, and I don't want to stick up for you if you won't stick up for the team. I'd like to but it's too much liability, I have to help only people who would in principle help others too. Evidently you don't care about that. And you wrote a letter telling them you're not sending anything more? And you're insulting a senator for not writing back, publicly? Did you vote for that senator from abroad or did you vote against him, did you not vote? Do you think the State Department will be more helpful now?

How can I interpret what you said in the best possible light, like where to begin? Just make two pieces of the puzzle fit together. I generally believe people's stories regardless of whether they're lying. I think it's good for people to be believed, even if it's by one person, just for a little while, just to know someone can trust them. Later I reevaluate and maybe change my mind.

I want to believe. Help me.

I hope that you find the help that you need.

That sounds horrible. Hope you get this resolved soon.

Thank you. I did, five months start to finish for my renewal.

What is worse is that there is no recourse other than to visit an embassy. My understanding is that you cannot renounce citizenship on US soil. It’s obvious this was a planned decision to turn off the only available exit.

>My understanding is that you cannot renounce citizenship on US soil.

I know nothing about this except 5 minutes of googling, but seems like USCIS does process renunciations on US soil:

>Further attempts by prisoners to renounce under 1481(a)(6) continued to be stymied by a United States Citizenship and Immigration Services policy that applicants had to attend an in-person interview and demonstrate that they could leave the U.S. immediately upon approval of renunciation. [0]

Reading between the lines though, the process seems far harder than doing it aboard because you must demonstrate "intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship", meaning cutting off all US ties and establishing foreign ties, and that's hard to demonstrate when you're physically inside the US.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relinquishment_of_United_State...

my learning level is about the same, it seems the process is governed by https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481

The gist is that the us gov pretty much has full discretion to “not believe” your renunciation if they desire. In practice the us gov seems to be unwilling to officially entertain renunciations except through very narrow processes.

Clarifying the above I found this: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-us-citizens-can...

The important quote is this: “ For all the acts listed above, it is not enough to appear to commit the act—even voluntarily—to lose U.S. nationality; the person must also commit the act in order to relinquish the nationality.”

It seems US gov policy is to interpret the law linked in the parent comment such that nearly no one (even traitors and rebels!) have the intent to renounce US citizenship and furthermore it is almost impossible to unambiguously prove that intention.

Since no other nation is going to presume to tell the US gov who its citizens are (not), there is very little recourse or due process available.

Getting the Consular Report of Birth Abroad, passport and then Social Security number for my child was an eight month adventure that I started on as soon as we got home from the hospital.

I will again brag on how wonderfully easy it was to get the kid’s German passport by comparison.

Just try voting abroad. That’s freaking insane. And don’t even think about registering to vote.

Important reminder for many Americans abroad who are already registered to vote: you might need to make a request for ballots to be mailed (or emailed) to you every year - it’s separate from voter registration in many states.

Keep in mind, balloting the US is based on place of residence. You’ll have a different set of elections to vote in from municipality to municipality (or ward to ward).

So you need to have a specific address in the US.

This makes sense. You shouldn’t be able to vote for an alder person in a different ward. But it requires a specific, “in US” residence.

If you don’t have a specific address in the US, (you’re permanently residing outside the country) your last state of residence should be able to provide you with “President Only” ballots.

I’ve never heard of this actually happening though.

The US embassy has no involvement in any of this whatsoever. They will refer you to the clerk of courts (or whatever).

Realistically, do everything you can in the US (including absentee voting if possible).

Edit: keep in mind, many places have over a dozen distinct election events over a 4-year cycle. Presidential, presidential primary, mid-term, mid-term primary, non-partisan, non partisan primary, local school board, etc.

Some states combine this into as few elections as possible, some as many elections as possible.

I once tried to vote in every election. Lack of publicity made this impossible. For many minor elections, there was no public info on the candidates for, say, clerk of court primary elections.

I've been able to vote abroad in state/presidential elections from my last address in the US. I do it by email.

My only major hiccup is that the MA secretary of state's website www.sec.state.ma.us (which has the info about upcoming elections, the tool to check your registration, and the instructions for voting overseas) is blocked in Japan "for cybersecurity reasons". I've tried contacting the department of state and my state representative about this, but nothing's come of it.

The government of Cambridge on the other hand has been quite pleasant to deal with.

I’ve tried. The local clerk of courts required contact via fax.

You’re at the mercy of your local election officials.

The Consular services have been extremely poor throughout the pandemic. A lot of people have been waiting months, if not years at this point, beyond regular processing times for things that were basically formalities in the past.

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