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Comment by kingkongrevenge | Hacker News Reader

> most routines involve rest between sets

Body building and power lifting routines involve rest between sets. The rest is needed to achieve the volume which induces sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Those guys look puffed up and ridiculous, in my opinion. They're also slow and have diminished hand speed and explosive power. High volume bench pressing, for example, will actually weaken your punch. Capillary density is also reduced and endurance is weakened. Brief and intense routines with very little rest give you endurance, make you fast, lean, and not puffed up.

You routinely see chubby guys lumbering around, resting, and then moving some heavy weights. Every time I see some one going for brief intensity they're ripped, and usually among the strongest anyway.

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I really disagree with things you state as facts.

Firstly, the different between appearing ripped and appearing 'puffy' or bigger is far more about diet and cardio than anaerobic activity. The guys with abs at the gym are far less about practical strength and more about a strict diet and large amounts of aerobic exercise to put them at an unnaturally low body fat percentage.

High volume bench press will weaken your punch? I call bullshit. Tell that to someone like Houston Alexander. Or Rashad Evans tonite, knocking out the best puncher in MMA (and clearly a weightlifter).

Brief and intense exercise doesn't give you very little endurance. Instead, it works your muscles, primarily recruiting fast twitch muscles and improving anaerobic efficiency.

Lastly, if body building/power lifting routines are making you slower and less explosive, why when I was training as a competitive gymnast were we training with large weight/low reps and weighted pylometrics to gain speed and explosiveness?

I always hear talk about 'overtraining' but really I think the huge issue is under nutrition. I trained 20+ hours a week when I was younger as a competitive gymnast and didn't come close to overtraining. Overtraining occurs when serious bodybuilders workout 4+ hours a day, not when you workout twice a week for 30 minutes.

Finally, I find your 'ripped is the strongest' statement ridiculous.

Thanks for the spoiler, guess I won't have to watch UFC 88 after all.

I'm really not sure where you contradict me. The subject was high volume body building style routines, and the merits of intensity over volume. You don't seem to address this. I guarantee you no fighter trains anything at all like a body builder. The focus is on hand speed and explosive force. It is an absolutely proven fact that high volume and emphasis on maximal force training compromises speed and endurance. The low reps and plyometrics you mention have nothing to do with body building routines...

I don't think anyone would suggest 30 minutes twice a week would lead to overtraining. That's a pretty good target, actually. Most people trying to get fit sort of half ass it five days a week, though. I'm not sure over-training is the right word, but they definitely spend way too much time training.

But as far as training 20 hours a week, that's far in excess of any health benefits, which was my point above with regard to not modeling on athletes. Competition level training involves major oxidation and over nitrification stress. Hormone profiles are messed up. Pro and college level athletes are not doing their health any favors.

I will have to disagree with your claim that getting cut is necessarily about aerobic exercise. Aerobics can certainly help, but another way lower fat is via boosted growth hormone. That "oh I'm going to puke" feeling you get from brief intense training is surging growth hormone levels. It makes you nauseous. It also reconfigures your body to be lean.

> Body building and power lifting routines involve rest between sets.

I thought this whole thread was about bodybuilding. That would be the target market for the app that was posted. I claimed that a logbook is useful for bodybuilders.

Originally I thought you were saying that logbooks were bad for bodybuilders, but now I suppose you are saying that bodybuilding in general is a bad activity. That's a whole different debate. Personally I like the appearance of a lean, muscular, and proportional physique, which is what bodybuilding is all about (not that I've attained this yet, but it's a goal).

> They're also slow and have diminished hand speed and explosive power

Bodybuilding won't slow you down, but it's not the optimal way to develop speed, since it develops slow-twitch muscles more than fast-twitch ones.

I don't understand at all your advocating "brief and intense" routines as an alternative to bodybuilding. Most bodybuilding routines are brief and intense sets, with some rest in between.

> Bodybuilding won't slow you down

Yes it will. I amateur box and getting in the ring with big muscular guys who obvious do bodybuilding style routines is great. They can't flick out fast punches and they run out of juice inside three rounds. This is well researched.

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