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Comment by Den-vr | Hacker News Reader

My wife went through the therapy. Three days a week for two weeks. It was hell, she changed as a person. There was a lot more expression of anger, she described it like having gasoline poured into her veins when they were already on fire. But, a month later, she was able to interact with her family members again. Without PTSD triggering for the first time in years. It really reduced the control PTSD had over her life. I'm not sure if it was worth it though.

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If it reduced the PTSD can you describe why it’s not worth it? Was it just a month of hell or are you saying the changes persisted?

I can’t speak for the OP but as someone with mental health issues, I find a great deal of comfort in learning to cope. I honestly don’t know if I’d choose to magic away half of my issues tomorrow: I know myself today, I know how to get through the day… getting better can be exhausting, and scary. Better the pain you know.

It's honestly hard to say if you haven't tried it. You know your pain, but that's all you know. The experiences behind these substances are incredibly varied. Infinitely so. And they can heal you.

You hit it square on. The hell of terrible lows contrasted with after previously unknown highs abated but the gasoline-in-her-veins anger persisted, and the coping skills she had from more than a decade of incredibly bitter therapy stopped being right for the situation.

Sorry to hear about your wife’s experience. I have never heard of such an intense schedule. In my experience it’s either an ivy or a sublingual session once every 7-14 days.

As with any psychoactive medication, taking it too often sounds physically and mentally exhausting. In this specific case it’s even more unusual as all guidance I saw in regards to ketamine therapy mentions that the post-session period of integration is critical to the success of this whole process. So having sessions back to back is pretty unusual.

The first place I did it, years ago, followed the same schedule - IV 3 times a week for 2 weeks, then followups tapering off until an equilibrium is found (either with no followups eventually or periodic "booster" doses). I was told at the time that this was the common practice, and it did seem to be from the other places I looked at.

The second place I did it was willing to try repeating the exercise.

I think the first went out of business in the last year or so, but they were around for years, so they did get plenty of business for some time.

(I also always recall a couple of times I was there - the infusions were done in an office setting, with insulated but not totally soundproof walls, and sometimes one of the other patients was _VIOLENTLY_ loud, screaming repeatedly for long stretches.

...that said, I looked a couple times, and those patients were coming in and leaving unescorted, so they did not appear to be there under duress, and one might conclude they thought it was helpful despite that, which tracks with my own understanding of how it can be violently intense for people with trauma, but often the trauma is less sensitive, for lack of a better word, afterward.)

I'll also point to my comment[1] from a prior thread about ketamine for a summary of my own experience.

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16849999

Thanks for sharing that. Would you mind clarifying one thing?

The "gasoline poured into her veins" metaphor: Is that referring to physical pain, or something else?

I'm not them but it sounds like his wife had a lot of untreated anger issues and ketamine therapy bypassed the coping mechanisms that she had been using to prevent herself form blowing up, i.e. pouring gasoline into the fire in her veins.

It probably didn't make her more angry, just less able to resist expressing her anger.

What's good for the goose is not good for the gander. It's par for course in mental wealth.

In my experience if you have mental health issues and are part of a herd, you're gonna have to find a new one if you get better.

Part of the healing process for people who’ve suffered through trauma is releasing all of that energy out of the body. It’s very common to go through big up/down swings during this process.

Most definitely. I'm going through some of this with therapeutic MDMA use for my PTSD. It's definitely been a journey, and not always a pleasant one, but, I believe I'm better off now after a few sessions than when I started.

Do you mean you've been approved/are able to get clinically administered MDMA taken with a therapist -- or is this self-administered?

I had similar very positive + life-changing experiences from taking MDMA but it wasn't clinical.

Self administered, unfortunately. I do have a therapist with whom I discuss things related to the sessions, but he's not directly involved.

Also unfortunately, I'm about out of the drug, and will soon need to either try and find a reliable source, or call it quits on this particular treatment avenue.

Why unfortunately? You are on a journey to heal, don't shame yourself!

"Unfortunately" because I suspect my supply of the drug will run out before I'd like it to. I don't care about the high, just the therapeutic effects.

Edit: Also, unfortunately, the site has just dictated that I've used up all my comments for a while and need a timeout. Had I been warned that this would happen in advance, I'd have done something to prevent it. Unfortunately, they just stick me with this uninformative error message saying I'm "posting too fast," and disallow me from posting anymore for some period of time I'm also not privy to.

I was trying to find a legal MDMA assisted therapy recently but apparently it’s still illegal outside of clinical trials.

Can you please explain what you mean by "energy"? Are there any research papers I can read on this subject of trauma energy?

I cannot point to any research papers, but here are a few books if you are curious:

- Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma and Healing Trauma: A Pioneering Program for Restoring the Wisdom of Your Body by Dr. Peter Levine

- The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel van der Kolk, M.D

Some other keywords to research: complex trauma or CPTSD, somatic experiencing or somatic psychotherapy.

Here is one that points to the psychological effects of myofascial issues: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233680399_Myofascia...

I think they mean: Energy; a shorthand reference to myriad qualities of lived experience including perceptions, ideas and emotions. Deliberately vague to encourage intuitive and personal interpretation. There is a leaning towards embodied sensation. The general the implied dogma is that energy is healthy when moving and undergoing rhythmic change. It's problematic when variance and flow diminishes.

Take some drugs you'll get it

I have taken many drugs, but I still see that when discussing mechanisms we need to be specific to have a deep understanding of the mechanics. Otherwise we get handwavy garbage that isn't actionable.

This is a large problem is psychology and it's made worse by the lack of research behind psychoactive compounds. That void gets filled by people who take the drugs recreationally and come up with this mythology type of explanations. As a scientist who studies drugs, biochemistry, and behavior; I want to move past this. I want people to have a clear understanding of how the brain works, and we don't get there by being vague.

That may be what you want as a scientist, but often these experiences are only communicable via metaphor. The narrative helps with integration, and can also be deeply meaningful. One side doesn't exclude the other by any means. It is what it is, and is part of what makes the experience so intriguing for people -- particularly people who suffer from depression and have lost their inner mythos.

I understand the difficultly in communicating these experiences. This is yet another issue in psychological research, as not only are they difficult to communicate but people may explain things differently when they're talking about similar experiences. This is the reason I would like to see things explained and studied with specificity.

Its likely that we don't have any research done into these psychological phenomena, partially due to the way research into these compounds has been essentially banned (DEA dragging their feet on applications or denying for arbitrary reasons)

I think a good example of terminology that has come from the drug use underground is that of "vibrations" It seems to me like the discussion of vibration is actually related to the oscillatory behavior of neurons and their networks. I don't know how we'll be able to dive into this idea and connect what people experience as "vibrations" to oscillatory behavior and their associated behavioral and psychological phenomena, but I think its a good place to start investigating as long as we solidify terminology.

I'm more than happy to hear different ideas and perspectives on these phenomena but I'll always ask clarifying questions. These questions help to get people on the same page so we can all deepen our understanding of the complex machinery that is the human brain.

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