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Comment by kirse | Hacker News Reader

as it represents a way for people to justify reprehensible acts

And in that view, it also represents a way for people to "justify" incredible acts of grace, mercy, and kindness to fellow man. At least in the US, the broad majority of charities and social work organizations that care for others' many needs (both internal and external to this country) have some sort of religious background.

Even further, religious freedom was a core basis for creating the US that - for all its faults - is still one of the greatest civilizations to have ever existed. So your one-sided perspective is arguably just that.

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My observation is that while religious people are kind and charitable, religious societies tend to be the opposite. An example is that the US is full of charitable organizations, yet in the aggregate, we are relatively uncharitable as a nation, especially towards the poor and weak. And how religious organizations actually spend their money overseas is anybody's guess, when a little bit of money can buy a lot of political power in a poor country.

From my reading of the gospel stories, this doesn't shock me. The religious doctrines have a lot to say about individual behavior, whether you agree with them or not, but nothing to say about how societies and governments treat people. In fact, my impression is that the gospels consider societies and governments to be irredeemable, and offer the "good news" of basically saving the good individuals and incinerating everything else, soon.

With this said, I'm hesitant to make a strong argument of this, because I have a rule that I don't try to interpret anybody else's religious doctrines or holy books. I hope that someone's religion motivates them to build a better society, but I can't prove that such a thing accurately reflects their doctrines.

I'd check your assumption that the US in aggregate tends to be uncharitable.

While it doesn't tell the whole store, in financial terms the US leads the world in per capital charitable contributions (by a significant margin).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_charitabl...

I'm thinking about quality of life measures such as infant mortality, life expectancy, car crashes (just pulling a few things out of the hat), policy on global warming, etc. Not charitable contributions but actual charity. Also, I was talking about charity towards our own people.

The charities just reflect the demographics of the US, which are also majority religious.

I worked with a pastor in the Philippines doing charity work a number of years ago, he outright said that his good deeds were all to spread and grow the religion, not because doing good deeds is a good thing to do. I did not like that one bit but it’s hard to argue against given these Filipinos really did need food parcels.

The Japanese mafia also give out charity to get people onside. Putin used to drive around rural regions handing out cash too.

In the UK, Jehovas witnesses come round to your house after the death of a loved one and they give you all kinds of nice messages and charity.

Growing a religion (or a movement) through bribery is an ancient practice.

Growing a religion (or a movement) through bribery is an ancient practice.

Of course, and there's always an element of corruption in modern churches that needs to be guarded against. That said, wrt Christianity the early disciples were often broke/homeless, all of them ended up without a dime in their pockets and most were gruesomely executed:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/m7tiq6/what_happen...

If money was the core element of growth, you'd figure the jig would be up just before the flaying & beheading, right?

The Japanese mafia also give out charity to get people inside. Putin used to drive around rural regions handing out cash too.

I don't think the pastors admission is as bad as it sounds at first blush. A religious man is likely to believe that the best "food" is the knowledge of God. That is, if the spirit is fed, and the mind looks to higher things, then order is restored in the organism. That being will begin to act rightly somewhat more often. It will use the food packets to add to an ordered life, and eventually become a source of food packets or other good things.

Viewed with the worst glasses, this motivation can be viewed as "growing the religion," as if its a pyramid scheme with no other motivation than its own growth (ie, cancer). I'd just like to add that it is possible to regard the growth of the religion as a truly high aim.

I'm not saying any one thing is true, only that it is possible that the pastors aim is high and heartfelt.

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