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Comment by darkwater | Hacker News Reader

So, you don't really think there is an invisible, almighty, sentient being that rules everything in the known universe, with a varying over time definition of "known"? And what would be the "naive view"? Assuming that the Bible is stating that such a being exists?

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The Bible is an account, written over thousands of years, of people's attempts to understand God. Parts of it are impenetrable unless you're on that journey yourself. What goes wrong is when people cherry-pick bits of it out of context: Shellfish, sexual mores, etc.

In a time without modern refrigeration, they may have been onto something with the shellfish.

Or the avoidance of pork- it’s distressingly easy to pick up parasites from consuming pork.

Only if you feed the pigs carrion and under cook it. There was a big trichinosis issue in the mid-20th century, which is when some people speculated on its connection to religious pork taboos, but nobody really takes that idea seriously any more.

You act like that is the only possible infectious agent. In addition to Trichinosis, Taenia solium and Toxoplasma gondii are also spread in undercooked pork- and those are modern health concerns. The animal eats almost anything and is capable of spreading more diseases than worms. It is no wonder it would be considered ‘unclean’ given the rudimentary cleansing rituals of the Old Testament Jews.

> with a varying over time definition of "known"

This is called progressive revelation[0].

> what would be the "naive view"

That the Bible is no different than, say, the Aeneid, or the Odyssey, or any other epic saga whose purpose is to provide a myth (in the literary sense) as an explanation for why things are, though are not tied to history explicitly.

> Assuming that the Bible is stating that such a being exists?

The Bible makes clear and explicit claims about its author, where creation came from, how and why humanity exists, as well as its ultimate end.

People often criticize those who hold to a Biblical faith as people trust in some "invisible, almighty, sentient being" yet themselves don't actually have any real answers to any of the most basic questions of creation and human existence.

[0]: https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_...

> or any other epic saga whose purpose is to provide a myth (in the literary sense)

Saga is an Old Norse word meaning "what is said," borrowed by English-speaking Old Norse scholars to refer to Old Norse narratives. The Aeneid is an epic poem written in Latin by Virgil around 25BC, give or take. The Odyssey is an epic poem written in ancient or Homeric Greek by a single author around the 8th or 7th century BC. The Bible could not be more different, being an anthology of writings of many different forms and many different languages by many different authors composing across the span of nearly a millennia.

> The Bible makes clear and explicit claims about its author

Please provide two examples from the Bible of clear and explicit claims about it's "author"

> The Bible could not be more different

I agree. However, that doesn't stop some people from simplifying it to something along those lines.

> Please provide two examples from the Bible of clear and explicit claims about it's "author"

It's hard to proof-text this because the entire bible is to be taken as a whole. The NT quotes the OT and the OT is further revealed by the NT. But, here you go:

- Matt 22:31 - "have you not read what was said to you by God:" (and then quotes Exodus 3:6.

It is very clear that the readers of we call the OT would have understood that what was recorded was effectively "God speaking." The entire Pentateuch + Prophets is filled God speaking to various people.

- 2 Peter 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Simply affirming what we already would already know.

- John 5:39, 46 - "You search the Scriptures...it is they that bear witness about me," ... "for [Moses] wrote of me."

> being an anthology of writings of many different forms and many different languages by many different authors composing across the span of nearly a millennia

It had many writers, but a single author and all of those writers had a singular focus: Jesus, the Son of God.

> Please provide two examples from the Bible of clear and explicit claims about it's "author"

Not the op but here are some claims made by the Bible about its origin.

2 Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness"

2 peter 1:20-21 "20 For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit."

Exodus 34:27 "27 Jehovah went on to say to Moses: “You are to write down these words, because in accordance with these words, I am making a covenant with you and with Israel.”

The Bible does mention that it's been written under divine inspiration at God's request. By the hand of men, but motivated and helped by holy spirit, as the scriptures say.

If interested, have a look at some of the frequently asked questions about the Bible that the Bible answers itself. This website uses only the Bible itself to answer questions about the Bible, which is a refreshing take.

jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/about-the-bible

I'm sure you'll find it informative.

> The Bible does mention that it's been written under divine inspiration at God's request. By the hand of men, but motivated and helped by holy spirit, as the scriptures say.

I appreciate the effort, but none of your citations are examples of "clear and explicit claims about the author," but instead are either existential claims or explanations of the unnamed authors' inspiration. What were looking for is something of the form "I, Sparticus, wrote this..." or some such.

> If interested, have a look at

Here is some quid pro quo, granted it is only a wikipedia article, but it brings together the work in summary of a vast number of biblical scholars in an easy to read table form and is quite refreshing for it's stark honesty and well-supported veracity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible

I suppose if an explicit declaration of authorship is the only thing acceptable to you then you could always see the opening statements of many of the Bible's books. They're quite clear about who composed their contents.

Nehemiah 1:1 "The words of Nehemiah..."

Isaiah 1:1 "The visions of Isaiah..."

Joel 1:1 "The word of Jehovah came to Joel..."

But most Bible writers acknowledged that they wrote in the name of Jehovah, the God of the Bible, and that they were guided by him.

Some of the many examples: Amos 1:1 "The words of Amos..." then Amos 1:3 "This is what Jehovah says..."

Micah 1:1 "The word of Jehovah that came to Micah" then Micah 2:3 "Therefore this is what Jehovah says:..."

Nahum 1:1 "A pronouncement against ninevah: The book of the visions of Nahum..." then Naham 1:12 "This is what Jehovah says:..."

If its true that as they say, they're all receiving instructions from the same source (God), then the author of the Bible's message is God, not the 40 men who were used to write it over 1600 years in their own styles.

Of course you'd have to believe that were true, and I'd contend that there are good reasons to. On the site I linked before, there are some good resources for anybody interested in learning about what the Bible actually teaches and how to apply its wisdom to make your life better. Speaking from personal experience, it works, it's quite incredible.

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