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Comment by fartcannon | Hacker News Reader

On an individual level, it would appear that just being from Hong Kong and not China will get you death threats.

I feel compelled to clarify this: Hong Kong is part of China, and has been since 1997. Saying that Hong Kong is not part of China is like saying that Texas is not part of the United States because at one point they seceded. These days, Texas has no more right to secede from the US than Hong Kong from China, even if there are people in both territories who would prefer full independence. Consequently, to a Chinese person, hearing "I'm from Hong Kong, not China" would be like hearing "I'm from Texas, not the United States" as an American.

Granted, someone saying the latter should never be met with death threats, just like the former!

Note that the sovereignty of Hong Kong is not as clear cut, because history.

Hong Kong was given to the Britain by three treaties in the 19th century (1842 Treaty of Nanking, 1860 Convention of Peking, 1898 The Second Convention of Peking), and the true copies of all treaties are in the hand of Taiwan, which were brought to Taiwan by the KMT government during its retreat to Taiwan before 1950.

If the declaration behind Hong Kong’s 1997 handover to China (the Sino–British Joint Declaration of 1984) is revoked, arguably it could be contested if Hong Kong should belong to the holder of the bearer shares of the three treaties, Taiwan. (See previous discussion [1]).

And in the most recent six-monthly report on Hong Kong published on 14 December 2021 [2], the UK government stated that China is not complying with the Sino-British Joint Declaration:

    With China now in a state of ongoing non-compliance with its international obligations under the UN-registered Sino-British Joint Declaration, the UK will continue to work with international partners to hold China to its legally binding obligations on Hong Kong. Upholding the promises it entered into freely is in the best interests of Hong Kong’s stability and prosperity.

China is not-complying the declaration behind Hong Kong’s 1997 handover to China.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23260934

[2]: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/six-monthly-repor... " Six-monthly report on Hong Kong: 1 January to 30 June 2021"

People say "I'm from Texas, not the US" all the time and no one cares.

It’s like saying “I’m from Austin, not Texas.”

The way Texans talk of being independent is actually kind of endearing I think. I think being offended or threatened by such talk would require an incredible feeling of insecurity.

Are the current rulers of China related to the Qing dynasty?

If you're intending to imply that the British didn't need to hand over Hong Kong because China changed rulers, I'm afraid that's not really how the law works. And, in any case, the negotiation of 1984 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration) between Britain and the PRC set up Hong Kong to become a PRC territory in 1997.

And I have a piece of paper that says I own part of the moon.

That's not quite the equivalence. This is more like you having a piece of paper from the old owner of a property showing that you're entitled to passage and showing it to the new owner.

The point is that no matter how many laws get passed, you could very easily see yourself as from Hong Kong, not China, and you shouldn't get death threats for saying as such.

This is totally separate from the point you were making. You can say you're from Hong Kong, but it's part of China. That you shouldn't get death threats should go without saying.

Texas does not have a special one country, two systems status and Hong Kong does until 2047. The fact that the communist party completely ignores this fact does not make it go away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems

Yes, thanks for the clarification. I was trying to make my comment specifically about secession - debunking the notion that Hong Kong is not part of China. The HK Basic Law, the same document that guarantees the "One country, two systems" approach, starts with the sentence "The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region is an inalienable part of the People's Republic of China."

I agree that the mainland government acted rashly. The forced implementation of the national security law definitely violates the spirit, if not the law here, and understandably a lot of people were alienated by this move. That said, the Basic Law does provide a provision for the implementation of such a law (Article 23), and there's ample wiggle room for the governments involved to argue that they haven't yet demolished the "one country, two systems" approach as yet.

While those in Hong Kong still enjoy more freedoms then China mainland... locking people up for only holding up signs and chanting (not excusing those who were violent)... has scared off Taiwan. No one wants to vote for the "Patriots" and now those in HK live their lives to try not to go to jail.

Nations are made by wars, not "Basic Laws". Read the history. Whether HK is a nation or not depends on how strong their people's will is to not be Chinese and to go to war for it - "Would rather be annihilated than being Chinese." Apparently they don't have it, but the jury of History might still be out.

I think people have a right to self determination. If Texas wants to secede please go ahead and do so.

Same for Catalonia, Hong Kong or any other.

Not saying it is a thing that should be done lightly, but also not impossible.

Countries exists for the people, not the other way round like China likes to think.

I don't know why people single out China for this when the US has invaded, couped, bombed, and otherwise helped install right-wing military juntas globally. Where was self-determination for Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos?

China's priority is national security, and given the track record of western liberal democracies it is not unreasonable. As I recall we had a civil war the last time states tried seceding.

Because this is a thread about China?

I’m not American, I don’t agree with the Vietnam war and I think the civil war was an ethical difficult decision. That was 150 years ago so not really sure why it is relevant.

Good point, sometimes you need self-determination, sometimes Uncle Ben will help you determine.

Ha, I mean, that's not weird at all. Texans say that all the time.

Six flags theme parks are quite literally named after the six different flags that have flown over Texas as a nod to it being an independent entity regardless of which larger nation currently lays claim to it.

Sure, but the last time they actually tried doing it we had a civil war in which millions died.

While I more or less agree with you, I think in this particular case using Hong Kong instead of China MIGHT have some validity due to the entirely different system a person grew up in.

Saying you are from Hong Kong gives you a ton of information that would be lost versus China

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