Comment by systemvoltage | Hacker News Reader

Comment by systemvoltage | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

COL/SOL in California is appalling. SOL continues to degrade here to the point where certain parts of Bay Are (Oakland, Hayward) look more like Syria than first world nation. Trash is everywhere, even in nicer neighborhoods. Not a single park here in East Bay without encountering a homeless person. And, then I meet people here that continue to defend 1) Food is amazing 2) SF sucks! Oakland is the best place ever 3) Well, we are kind here so we tolerate homelessness 4) All those NIMBYs, otherwise this place would be perfect 5) Our government cares about people more than infrastructure 6) We should tolerate crime because we are kind unlike other cities/states 7) California houses out of state homeless (this is false, despite of being repeated ad-nauseum on HN. Let me know and I’ll dig up sources).

These reasons are not convincing anymore. It’s a self perpetuating degradation of living standards.

I am currently looking for a job in Colorado, Texas, NC, etc.

Okay, but you have to understand, when you say things like "Oakland == Syria" it's incredibly hard to take you (and the people who make complaints like this) seriously.

I can walk four blocks and buy, like, 19 different lattes. I can walk two blocks and get on a train that takes me to downtown SF in 18 minutes. In a 10-minute drive I can get to literally any cuisine the world has to offer, and it's fucking delicious. These are not amenities available in third-world countries (or, I might add, in many cities in the U.S., at least not at this density and quality).

Do I see homeless people on the way? Yeah. I live in the Bay Area, an area going through a horrifyingly serious homelessness crisis. Parks are bad. The encampments under and along the highways are massively depressing.

But there's not rubble in the streets. Families are not starving to death in their homes. People are not being gunned down against walls.

Shit is bad right now, and I am afraid it's going to get worse before it gets better. But let's not pretend it's a third-world country. That helps neither your cause nor mine.

To further your point on the homeless: most of them aren't SF (or even Cali) locals. Their almost all drug addicts from other states who came to SF because they were told drugs were easy to get here and the weather's better than where they came from.

Gov Rick Perry used to brag on national TV that Texas' solution to the homeless problem was to buy them tickets to California. And their director of health services recently admitted that they still do that. Texas didn't solve their homeless problem, they simply made it someone else's problem to deal with.

> To further your point on the homeless: most of them aren't SF (or even Cali) locals

Yes, they are. SF’s own research on the homeless population identified that 70% lived in SF immediately before becoming homeless, 55% for over 10 years; the 30% who did not live in SF include 22% from elsewhere in CA and 8% from other states.

Migration and dumping from other states happens, but it's not the main source of homelessness.

I thought it goes without saying to not take it literally. We don't have bombs falling here. Aesthetically, vast areas do look like Syria. May be not rubble, but very very far away from first-world (Switzerland, Japan).

Food is amazing in a lot of big cities. There is no objective measure. New Yorkers say the same and so do people in Portland.

Even after back pedaling, this is still really out of touch.

You don't seem to know what Syria looks like and "aesthetics" can't make something into the third world anyway. Not looking like a wealthy Swiss town or Japanese metropolis doesn't make anything third world.

Lived in Mission Bay for 3 years after visiting the Bay Area double digit times over the years. It’s the type of place you love to hate and hate to love. I don’t regret leaving, moved to Washington but I do miss it and hate it for all the reasons you mentioned.

SOL = Standard of Living ?

That is an uncommon acronym.

I personally am happy that many people are eager to leave California and many more are actively discouraged from moving here. We've got plenty, thank you, and all are welcome to believe that this is a terrible state covered in syringes and human feces. I'm almost willing to believe it is deliberate propaganda by people who love California and have no intention of ever leaving.

That said I have no idea why people cannot separate the Bay Area from a state larger than many countries. So be it. I'd rather live in Fresno with its easy access to the Sierras than anywhere in the South.

Yes, SOL of living has been going downhill in the Bay Area in the last 10 years. I grew up here and I can see everything just getting old and uncared for.

Moving to Portland in 2022.

Haha. You're sick of things going uncared for and looking like a mess, and think the PNW is better. Whoa boy. Anyone want to tell this guy?

As a Portlander, you might wanna rethink that plan if you think standard of living will go up by moving here.

> Moving to Portland in 2022.

Portland isn't any better. I recommend going to a centrist or even Red state. Arizona is great.

> In 2017 Portland ranked third. Now it has dropped to 66th out of 80.

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-...

You're decamping for Portland? You're in for a surprise.

These are the reasons I chose to leave the East Bay. It's a dump (almost literally). Californian exceptionalism is rampant too, like many people have never visited a place where you aren't afraid to park your car on the street or don't step over human feces. For the low low price of $2,500/month (and that's not particularly expensive).

What bothers me most is that when I talk about this with people there the reaction is somewhere between "good riddance" or reducing my complaints down to cost of living. But I distinctly remember talking to a mayoral candidate in Berkeley canvassing for the election last year and discussing things like solar mandates. He seemed baffled that I asked why the city couldn't keep my street clean or do something about the number of brush fires and assaults at the nearby homeless encampment.

The Easy Bay could be great, but they're lacking basic municipal function and acting like the weather, mountains, and liberalism make up for it.

Could you dig up sources on that? Not challenging you, but as an Angeleno I've always believed this to be true myself. Curious what may actually be happening.

It's not just SF that gets bussed in homeless but many cities throughout America.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

This article is several years old but does a good job illustrating where people are moving to and from. It's also not any local government policy to bus homeless people to other cities. Most of the time it's family and friends buying them tickets.

Here you go:

> 70% from San Francisco

22% from rest of California

8% from out of state

I think the source is from this study: https://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/FINAL-PIT-R...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28333755

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28974050

(As a resident of MA,) I'd also like to see the data.

If I had a choice to be homeless here or homeless in the Bay Area, it's not even close. The weather here is terrifically worse than anywhere near the water in CA.

In LA, 20% of our homeless population last year came from out of state and another 2% from out of country. See slide 24 at [1]. People like to downplay this as “only 20%” which is ridiculous. 20% is a huge portion. As always, though, lack of affordable housing and true social safety nets are the biggest drivers by far.

[1] https://www.lahsa.org/news?article=726-2020-greater-los-ange...

LAHSA's statistics are skewed, since they count someone as local once they've been living in LA for a certain amount of time (I think it's a year), even if they have been homeless their entire time in LA.

In 2018, the LA Times ran a series of articles on the homeless situation, and had reporters accompany county social workers. More than half of the homeless were from out-of-state, with Texas being the largest single source of homeless in LA. More than 3/4 of LA's homeless weren't local to LA.

There was a big study a while back that showed something like only 30% from out of state?

The tricky is they had an expansive definition of "local": they were measuring where people most recently became homeless, which means almost any housing in SF for almost any amount of time meant they counted as local.

Yup, came with a week of money for a hotel or stayed with a friend for a month? local

> look more like Syria than first world nation

Serious question, have you actually been to Syria? Can you cite some sources that can prove this comparison?

I was, several times, beginning with ~ 1982 till a few years ago. I lived in that region for a while and in US for a while. What is the point of the question, to argue it is not that bad, an ad hominem or a red herring?

Surely, you could provide some photographic evidence (own or other sources) that prove your comparisons then?

This is trolling. You don't compare pictures (pixel level?) to describe similarities between places.

What do you mean pixel level? I just want to see living conditions being similar. It’s quite an obvious request, for such bold claims made by you.

What does SOL stand for?

Standard of Living or Shit Out of Luck

Not sure which applies more.

Hmm, interesting. I live in the East Bay (Walnut Creek) and spent a weekend in Healdsburg. Eating at Single Thread, drinking at Marin Layer, and staying at H2 hotel at the plaza. Seemed to be like SOL has gone up 10x over the last 10 years

Oh goody, another Californian who is fed up with the trash heap they've created and is moving to Colorado. Can't wait for another local business to be replaced by a car wash or a Pollo Loco.

I mean, I can appreciate the snark (CO born and raised) but the who "Californian" really hit the peak in the 90's. The next wave was Texas, and now there are so many people moving here it's hard to pinpoint a majority. Ironically, I'm very strongly considering leaving because all the things I love(d) about Colorado are being destroyed now.

I've heard that before, but I think that's just visibility- Texans keep their license plates because registration and taxes are cheaper there, Californians change their plates first chance they get to stop paying CA taxes.

Don't bother with CO. Our front range is well on the way to becoming SF 2.0. There's already a staggering amount of homelessness and the COL is through the roof.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com