Comment by burrokeet | Hacker News Reader

Comment by burrokeet | Hacker News Reader

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the compulsory rate in the US right now is 9.1 cents for songs up to 5 minutes in length, and 24 cents for ringtones.

syncs right now go from free to maybe 50k, unless it is a massive song (thing the Beatles) in a massive campaign or feature. the average network tv sync right now is prob around 5 grand all-in, meaning 2.5k goes to the owner of the sound recording copyright (the label or artist) and 2.5k goes to the owner of the composition (the songwriter(s) or publisher(s)).

Music publishers can take anywhere from 10% (for an admin deal) to 50% (for a co-publishing deal). Bigger percentages involve advances (recoupable payments against future royalties), but also much longer terms (5-10+ years).

Songwriters don't get publishing deals unless their songs are being performed or sold, and there are lots and lots of indie publishers out there, along with the majors as you mention.

In many territories outside of the US, artists and master recording copyright owners do get paid for public performance - in the UK for example PPL is one society that pays some of these rightsholders for public performance.

Just to add a little more detail:

> Music publishers can take anywhere from 10% (for an admin deal) to 50% (for a co-publishing deal). Bigger percentages involve advances (recoupable payments against future royalties), but also much longer terms (5-10+ years).

Note this is for the publishing royalties only (not performance rights)

And on @alex1'- post:

> The label will own the song recordings, not the artist.

This would depend on the contract, though it's true that in most cases today the label would own the recording.

In some cases the artists choose to sub-license the recording to the record company, in which case he/she/they retain rights to the recording.

Finally, as is well known now artists often get an advance from the record company on signing a contract. This advance however is deductible from any earnings the artist would receive. Sometimes the advance is used to pay for the recording or equipment or even to finance a tour (the tours are usually not financed by the labels, aside from the 360 arrangements someone else mentioned.)

No-one has mentioned the artist manager fees - I'm not sure of what the figures for that are, but I think they range from 10% up to 50% (of the advance) in some very rare cases.

In short, in most cases making a living as a musician/recording artist is hard to impossible. Many semi-successful indie bands don't earn much more than a minimum wage job, with perhaps similar long-term prospects. If you make it big, you're rich but anything else is not a great existence. Oh, and the record companies often struggle too (both majors and indie these days.)

A few months ago we launched a service called http://Songtrust.com, we are helping bring music publishing to songwriters of all levels. Our aim is to be as songwriter friendly as possible, we only charge a subscription and we do not take any % of royalties. We also let our songwriters opt out of the 'deal' with us at any time. That way if a traditional publisher comes knocking with a big advance check(which often is just a really bad bank loan at usurious rates - another one of the reasons publishing gets such a bad rap) or if a publisher with Sync expertise in your genre offers to better exploit (which is the technical term) your music. We also offer sync opportunities through a partnership with dms.fm on a non-exclusive basis (meaning our customers can go shop their syncs other places)

We help songwriters get affiliated with a PRO(like ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC), register all their songs and help them collect their royalties just like any other publisher. We also register their songs with The Harry Fox Agency(HFA) which will be collecting mechanicals from record sales and also from Youtube and Spotify. All of this you could do yourself but it's a huge pain in the neck involving a lot of paperwork and a ton of time. We like to think of it like having a professional do your taxes for you.

Soon we will be coming out with a product aimed at Bands instead of individual songwriters, which we hope will be a huge hit for the giant group of indie bands who will never get a publishing deal but will be owed publishing monies.We were spun out of a traditional publishing company called Downtown Music Publishing, we are well funded, have paying customers, and since this is HN I can’t help but plug that we are hiring folks who want to come help change get songwriters paid: (http://blog.songtrust.com/jobs/front-end-developer-ux-design...)

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