Kewl, and not to discount the result but sounds like ... pattern matching, right?
So why do the editors of all these journals keep feeding off the ML == AI meme?
Surely they know better by now.
Kewl, and not to discount the result but sounds like ... pattern matching, right?
So why do the editors of all these journals keep feeding off the ML == AI meme?
Surely they know better by now.
Your comment is a good example of AI meaning whatever we haven't solved yet.
Playing chess well is AI until we have programs that can regularly defeat professionals, then it suddenly doesn't count.
Accurately labeling the contents of a photo is AI until we have services that do this for anyone, and then it's not AI anymore.
Pretty soon self-driving cars will also not count as AI, because we'll have solved self-driving and therefore it's not hard enough anymore.
Yes, I'm aware of the Rodney Brooks quote. I think it's kind of glib and misses the mark.
Take chess, for example. When algorithms were developed to beat humans at chess -- it wasn't, like the quote implies, out of some sense of envy or schadenfreude that people said, "Oh, but that's not real AI".
But rather -- from the intrinsic features of the system that first met this challenge. Which, at the end of the day, were basically about generalized tree search. Okay, there was more to it than that -- but in 3 word or less, that's gist of the AlphaZero algorithm, as described in the original paper.
So people said "Oh -- it turns out you don't need human-like cognition to beat humans at chess/go/shogi. You just need good enough tree search, and some decent hardware."
Pretty soon self-driving cars will also not count as AI, because we'll have solved self-driving and therefore it's not hard enough anymore.
That's one of the weird things about the current moment in AI: people keep talking about self-driving cars as if they're a straight-line extrapolation the breakthroughs we've seen so far (give or take a few details).
They're not. If you just think about if for a minute: nearly all of the challenges met thus far -- taking the two you just mentioned as particularly shining examples -- as significant as they have been, have been pretty darn one-dimensional. "Here's a function; optimize it" (basically).
The reason self-driving cars are floundering at the moment is that the intrinsic problem they're dealing with is an entirely different beast from "solve this symbolic game faster than a human" or "label these photos better than a roomful of monkees". It is vastly more complex. And the emerging consensus (whatever some companies may say to the contrary) is that solution is not lurking just around the corner, and not coming our way anytime soon -- certainly not "pretty soon".
It’s just a dumb definitional game that some people insist on playing. AI doesn’t just mean human level intelligence. The field is bigger than that. When people talk about the AI in their video game, they’re not demanding that bots be as smart as humans.
There are more specific terms like hard AI or AGI for when that’s the topic of discussion, and there’s no reason to assume that whenever someone says AI they mean one of those other things.
Right (most likely), but my point was -- we're not going to get there by extrapolating linearly from human-beating technologies such as AlphaZero (impressive though they are). Or by stitching a few of these on top of each other.
When people talk about the AI in their video game, they’re not demanding that bots be as smart as humans.
Of course the ML/AI distinction is completely muddled in public discourse, and the marketing fluff of many startups hasn't helped either. But the point from the very beginning was: from practitioners (and journals like Nature) we should expect better.
Hell, even Wikiepdia makes it clear:
> Artificial intelligence (AI) is intelligence demonstrated by machines, as opposed to natural intelligence displayed by animals including humans. Leading AI textbooks define the field as the study of "intelligent agents": any system that perceives its environment and takes actions that maximize its chance of achieving its goals.[a] Some popular accounts use the term "artificial intelligence" to describe machines that mimic "cognitive" functions that humans associate with the human mind, such as "learning" and "problem solving", however, this definition is rejected by major AI researchers.[b]
> AI applications include advanced web search engines (e.g., Google), recommendation systems (used by YouTube, Amazon and Netflix), understanding human speech (such as Siri and Alexa), self-driving cars (e.g., Tesla), automated decision-making and competing at the highest level in strategic game systems (such as chess and Go).[2][citation needed] As machines become increasingly capable, tasks considered to require "intelligence" are often removed from the definition of AI, a phenomenon known as the AI effect.[3] For instance, optical character recognition is frequently excluded from things considered to be AI,[4] having become a routine technology.[5]
Insisting that others use your non-standard definition is silly.
You're browbeating me for a position I'm not taking. Weird.
Edit: just to expand a bit, the "intelligence" in modern AI is in the training, not inference. I think people see inference in a neural network as pattern matching or some kind of filter, and that's basically true, and "dumb" if you like. But learning the weights is a whole different thing. Stochastic Gradient Descent et al are using often only a comparative few examples to learn a pattern and embed it in a set of weights in a way that can generalize despite being highly underdetermined. It's not general intelligence, but it's a much different thing than the casual dismissals people like to post, usually directed at the inference part as if the weights just magically appeared
"Pattern matching" obviously includes "pattern finding" already, in common parlance.
By "deep learning" one means, in effect, "hierarchical pattern finding" (which is basically what "feature" or "representation" learning means to a lay person).
But still, at the end of the day ... pattern finding.
Or that is to say: "just ML", not AI.
So, the terminology I recognise is "pattern matching" when referring to matching an object against a pattern, as in matching strings to regular expressions or in unification (where arbitrary programs can be matched); and "pattern recognition" when referring specifically to machine vision tasks, as an older term that as far as I can tell has fallen out of fashion. The latter term has a long history that I don't know very well and that goes back to the 1950's. You can also find it as "statistical pattern recognition".
To be honest, I haven't heard of "pattern finding" before. Can you say what "common parlance" is that? What I'm asking is, whom is it common to, in what circles, etc? Note that a quick google for "pattern finding" gives me only "pattern recognition" results.
To clarify, deep learning is not "pattern matching", or in any case you will not find anyone saying that it is.
But basically I'm in the camp of Gary Marcus and others, who would probably respond by saying something along the lines of the following:
"No, there's not particularly good evidence that all we're doing is pattern matching, and a lot of evidence to the contrary. For one thing, a lot of these ML algorithms (touted as near- or superhuman) are easily fooled, especially when you jiggle the environmental context by even just a little bit."
"For another, and on a higher level, what algorithms lack -- but which sentient mammals have in spades -- is an ability to 'catch' themselves, an ability to look at the whole situation and say 'Woah, something just isn't right here'. (This is referred to as the 'elephant in the room' problem with modern AI)."
"And then there's the lack of a genuine survival drive -- not to mention the fact that we don't see any inkling of evidence of some capacity for self-awareness in any currently existing system."
Just as a starting point. But these are some huge differences between currently existing AI systems (however you want to define "AI here) and actual sentient cognition.
Huge, huge differences... such that I don't see one can get the idea that "all" we're doing is pattern recognition. Even if it may cover roughly 90 percent of what our neural tissues do - that other 10 percent is absolutely crucial, and completely elusive to any current, working technology as such.
When someday we do achieve human level intelligences in computers, it will be at least in large part with ML.
No doubt it will, but still there's that ... remaining 10 percent. Which you won't get to with accelerated pattern finding any more than a faster airplane will get you to the moon.
read a Thousand brains: a new theory of intelligence
Is there? Link? It is possible, I just don't think there is enough evidence to say anything about it. What evidence would show that humans are just pattern finding and matching machines?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/78/47/35784708f8cc9ef2345c...
Edit: In some cases you can write a program to explore a space. For example, you can write a program that plays board games randomly and notes the outcome, that is a data generator. Then you hook that to a pattern recognizer powered by a data centre, and you now have a state of the art gameplay AI. It isn't that simple, since writing the driver and feedback loop is extremely hard work that an AI can't do, humans has to do it.
I truly think all the criticism of deep learning is really a lack of understanding of neuroscience. It is not much different. We just currently do it much more inefficient than a brain
And programming at the end of the day ... if's and for's. See how ridiculous it is? A fuzzy high level concept explaining away the complexity of getting there.
The more basic and important point is: technology that works on the basis of "pattern finding" (however you wish to call it) -- even if it performs exponentially better and faster than humans, in certain applications -- is still far different from, and falls far short of technology that actually mimics full-scale sentient (never mind if it needs to be human) cognition.
Or that is to say; of any technology that can (meaningfully) be called AI.
'AI' has always almost been a marketing term, anyways.
I would call all of this pattern detection btw.
But so would i call the kernel perceptron (1964): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_perceptron
I don't really get the original argument. I never thought "todays AI isn't smart, but if it could play Go, that would be an intelligent agent!". So "the AI effect" is just a strawman, I have seen no evidence that anyone actually made such a change of heart. AI research is important, but nothing so far has been anywhere remotely intelligent and I never thought "if it could do X it would be intelligent" for any of the X AI can do today. When an AI can pretty reliably hold a remote job and get paid without getting fired for like a year, that is roughly the point I'd agree we have an intelligent agent.
Edit: That wouldn't require "much". If the AI can read and understand text, then it can read about backend programming and what makes a good server and build a mental model for stuff like code quality. Based on what it learned it can also device a strategy for how to get a job, so it creates a github account, writes some example projects and puts them on github and writes a CV based on those, then go look for jobs.
Of course, this would only be simple if the agent was intelligent. Not like todays agents which are coded for extremely specific scenarios. Even the general gameplay AI they talked about is for very specific scenarios compared to what a human deals with. In order to move towards creating an intelligent agent we need to make progress in this direction. But nothing that has came out of AI research recently really do make any progress in that direction.
I think the "AI effect" primarily refers to how practical successes in the field of AI get taken for granted and no longer considered AI - leaving AI with the unsolved problems and bleeding-edge research.
If you ordered something for Christmas recently, 'AI' may have been used to understand your search query, rank relevant pages, allow the websites to determine you're not a DDoS attack, allow your bank to determine that your transaction is legitimate, let the confirmation email through your spam filter, then work out routes and other logistics to get it delivered. Before you started your order, 'AI' may have also been involved in the product's design (like optimization of circuits), used to detect defects during manufacturing, or for monitoring and maintenance of rail/road surfaces used for delivery. But all this has been working for a while, so fades into the background rather than being what people think of as AI.
There is also that more philosophical element (rather than just about perception of AI as a field) involving our boundary for what "intelligence" is.
People won't usually phrase it as "once AI can do X I'll be happy calling it intelligent", but sometimes "doing X requires intelligence" or "an unintelligent machine could never do X", with similar implications. Like, going way back, Descartes' claims that machines will be incapable of responding appropriately in conversation.
With AI becoming increasingly capable, even though the timeframes are often far longer than AI-optimists predict, a prevalent view seems to be that AI could behave identically to humans and still not be intelligent. Possibly even be physically identical to humans and still not be intelligent, if you buy into the P-zombie argument (and additionally their nomological possibility, which most people don't).
Holding a remote job (including the inverview and portfolio process) is an interesting benchmark, but I can't help but feel your reponse when that gets achieved may be "oh but that's basically just patchwork of language models - clearly in retrospect my criteria must not have been strict enough".
there isn't some unexplained magic sauce.
And AI is a very broad field, including pattern matching (supervised ML or otherwise), logic/rule based systems, etc. Is your complaint that they use AI/ML interchangeably? Because in this case, while AI is a more term for the technology than ML, it is not a strictly incorrect title.
Yes, that's all I'm saying. And it seems like such a known point that they're not the same and not interchangeable, or so I thought (that I'm kind of astonished at the downvotes at my original comment).
Because in this case, while AI is a more term for the technology than ML, it is not a strictly incorrect title.
I get what you're saying at the product level -- and the fact that the vast bulk of the public subjected to these technologies couldn't tell you the difference, nor could they begin to care.
But to practitioners, the basic facts remain: ML ≠ AI, it's a proper subset, and we're doing the public a genuine disservice (and arguably causing substantial harm) by pretending to tell them that we're making good progress developing AI as distinct from hypercharged ML, that any day now they'll have self driving cars ... and all that crap the industry has basically been telling people.
And again, I thought it was pretty simple and generally known.