Someone with a more software-informed background may disagree, but the judge and jury are unlikely to be programmers. It's the modern equivalent of the old "nobody got fired for buying IBM".
Someone with a more software-informed background may disagree, but the judge and jury are unlikely to be programmers. It's the modern equivalent of the old "nobody got fired for buying IBM".
And that is the actual business value - not legal, but administrative. Easy to send out, receive back, track who signed what, and when. The actual signature is a nifty feature, but isn't the business value.
Depends on the jurisdiction/norms. Civil juries are common in the US, for example.
do we have a law, which says "use DocuSign" else a signature is not as legally binding?
honestly, it feels like a marketing and scaremongering to justify the higher price and preference over the competitors
Imagine showing up to court and trying to argue that a record in your company's database was proof that the defendant signed a legally binding contract with you. What if they deny having ever signed it? Is a judge or jury really going to take you at your word?
This is really one of those falsehoods programmers believe about the law. No, courts do not in fact care if your method of signalling agreement is not some unalienable public key cryptography scheme. Unless the law explicitly states otherwise for the kind of contract you are entering into (e.g. requiring a notary seal), contracts are regularly formed a thousand different ways. Advertise a cash-back policy? Great, that's a contract you enter into with every buyer.
> An electronic signature (either simple, advanced or qualified) shall not be denied legal effect and admissibility as evidence in legal proceedings solely on the grounds that it is in an electronic form or that it does not meet the requirements for qualified electronic signatures.
more specifically:
> Regarding qualified electronic signatures, they explicitly have the equivalent legal effect of handwritten signatures across all EU Member States.
fire your lawyer i guess
1. Evidence of an electronic signature is not a priori inadmissible in court.
2. A "qualified electronic signature", i.e., a cryptographic digital signature created by an approved hardware crypto device using keys from a certificate meeting certain requirements verified by an approved certification authority, is equivalent to a conventional paper signature.
If anything, this suggests to me that, in many practical contexts, "'click here to sign'-style Web form signatures are not legally binding" may well be a reasonable plain-language summary of Dutch law, notwithstanding EU e-signature regulations.
For other things, there are stricter legal standards of what kind of form of agreement is required, and only then they don't work. I've mentioned this example here a few times, but recently a German grocery delivery startup fell into the trap of using DocuSign for their work contracts. You can enter work contracts just fine with it, but specific clauses in work contracts require paper signature (or a strong cryptographic digital signature), so suddenly the contracts they had intended to be temp contracts were permanent contracts.
(I believe DocuSign also offers the "proper" qualified cryptographic signatures, but that's not the usual flows people think of when DocuSign is mentioned)
Adobe offers a handy review of the Dutch law on this subject https://helpx.adobe.com/sign/using/legality-netherlands.html
You know I was saying that in the context of gp asking if it’s legal to sign in Apple preview which is essentially appending a picture of your signature to a pdf with no guarantee from a third party if it’s you that signed it.
I don’t know, maybe English is not your native language, in that case, you’re mistake is understandable.
You will have a bad time if you sign a contract using apple preview and then try to argue that you’re not bound by that contract.
> For documents signed with a non-qualified electronic signature (e-signature), the Dutch Supreme Court confirmed that the signature must be ‘sufficiently reliable’ for the document to be classified as binding evidence. If the documents are not classified as binding evidence, additional evidence may be required to demonstrate the authenticity of the e- signature.
Apple preview is not sufficient in itself and needs additional evidence to support the reliability of it. I never said that it could not be used as evidence, but it’s not sufficient in itself.
Again bro, reading skills, work on them.
If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
> Apple preview is not sufficient in itself and needs additional evidence to support the reliability of it.
The situation is not meaningfully different than with a wet signature on paper.
It doesn’t matter if you sign the contract with a pen or using the preview tool, in the Netherlands you are equally bound by both. If you dispute the authenticity of the signature, the situation will not be any different between the two.
And bro, work on your attitude.
Where are governments involved in directly issuing smartcards?
The one "in my wallet" (spoiler: actually lurking in the back of my desk drawer, I use it so rarely) is issued by a private company who just happen to be on the government's list.
I'm sure there are many more.
E: Also Croatia, Czechia, Latvia, Liechenstein, Lithuania, Slovakia