Comment by hncurious | Hacker News Reader

Comment by hncurious | Hacker News Reader

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If we were a serious society, then the conversation would be about:

immune vs non-immune

high risk vs low risk

infectious vs non-infectious

But no, it's jabbed vs unjabbed. It doesn't make sense. Everyone in Germany who wants the vaccine has had it, and if you've had Covid, you're about as protected as the vaccinated. Furthermore, leaky vaccines don't prevent transmission, can't eliminate the virus (animal reservoirs) and may even make it more virulent. See Marek's disease: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15757475/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/leaky-vac...

This is not a rational, science-based policy. This is about punishing the non-compliant, mostly the under class. As the upper class continues with their events surrounded by masked servants, with endless examples of officials breaking their own rules. Worse, we are normalizing the dehumanization of a group of people who we're told are diseased and dangerous and it's all their fault. Germany of all places should be absolutely allergic to such rhetoric.

> Furthermore, the vaccines don't prevent transmission,

They do prevent transmission, since they make people less likely to be infected, and if you're not infected with the virus you won't transmit it. The vaccines are somewhat less effective at preventing people from being infected at all than they are at preventing hospitalization and death, but still significantly effective. [1]

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/11/science/vacci...

> They do prevent transmission, since they make people less likely to be infected, and if you're not infected with the virus you won't transmit it.

Incorrect. Intramuscular vaccines induce antibody production at nearby lymph nodes inside of the body; and these mRNA vaccines in particular also cause S-antibodies to circulate in one's blood (even though that's unintended and the long term effects are still unknown).

Because the intramuscular route of administration, S-antibodies are not present in significant quantities inside the lungs of vaccinated individuals. Thus with covid-19 being an airborne disease, vaccinated people can still exhale virus-containing breaths and transmit the disease to others, who can then go on to contract the illness, whether they're vaccinated or not. So while the vaccines offer protection against serious illness to those who receive it, it certainly does not prevent transmission.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v... (And this is broadly corroborated by other studies)

The consensus from studies is that, while not 100% effective at preventing tranmission, vaccines do reduce the transmission of Covid, even considering Delta (Omnicron is too recent for there to be data, but there's no reason to doubt transmission would also be reduced).

They reduce transmission but don't prevent it completely.

Lower probability of getting infected != prevent infection.

Lower probability of getting infected == lower probability of spreading the virus != vaccines prevent transmission.

Preventing transmission is not binary.

Reducing the probability of transmission is preventing transmission, as it is preventing [some] transmission.

>Germany of all places should be absolutely allergic to such rhetoric.

You would think! Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it and all that...

Maybe we shouldn't want Germany to repeat the 30's? Just a thought.

Your logic does not work. If people in a developed country would simply become vaccinated and boosted, then only the vaccinated or not condition would typically apply in mainstream society--and not the 3 other above conditions.

While all 4 are discriminatory, the first 3 are not inherently due to personal choices or preferences. People choose not to get vaccinated harming society as a whole--and make the other 3 above conditions come into play.

You're still just talking about jabbed vs unjabbed.

The point is that jabbed versus unjabbed takes precedence over the 3 above listed categories. If everyone who can be jabbed is; then the above 3 categories need not apply, even in the case of omicron. This is especially the case if a booster is given, creating secondary immune response to Sars-CoV-2.

Yes, there will be some immune escape but many of the antibodies that are acquired via boosters will cross react with omicron.

> Germany of all places should be absolutely allergic to such rhetoric.

It is the German gene.

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