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Comment by systemvoltage | Hacker News Reader

I predict that people will leave Washington State in droves. Not because of the tax increase, but because the amount of taxes you pay goes into never ending government pit of inefficiency and incompetency. I’m down with paying more taxes but in return I want no homelessness, no chadzone, less crime, better roads, straight forward education (math is racist apparently), spotless streets, safety, eradication of poverty, no power cuts, and better law enforcement.

Better yet, instead of increasing taxes, how about we improve the efficiency of the government? For same budget, we can get more done. We never seem to ask this question.

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Not because of the tax increase, but because the amount of taxes you pay goes into never ending government pit of inefficiency and incompetency.

From my POV, having lived here for 20 years, WA residents used to get a reasonable deal on their taxes. Sure, they were high from the perspective of this Midwestern boy, but the ferries ran on time and shit got done. I do not feel that's the case anymore (well, the ferries are probably still timely).

I was just asking my wife the other day, "I don't mind high gas taxes per se, but for having some of the highest fuel taxes in the country, why is this highly-trafficked road such a piece of shit? They haven't paved it since we moved here." As one example; but where the hell is that money going? We don't even have hard winters to tear the roads up. Why are four-banger compact cars running practically open exhaust and rattling windows? Don't we do inspections anymore? Or have cops that pull people over for such things? Speaking of which, in Redmond I'm kind of surprised when I see a cop driving around anymore.

Blah, blah, blah, no one outside of WA cares and those that live here know what I'm on about, so I'll cut it short. I'm with parent: I'll gladly pay taxes, they buy civilization. But lately I don't feel I'm getting as much civilization for my tax dollar as I used to, not even close.

> well, the ferries are probably still timely

Someone isn't on the wsdot ferry email list (anymore?). Most of the lines are currently running single boat service, or only announcing both boats will be running in the morning. I don't personally count it as being on time if you're doing half the normal number of sailings, but those are mostly on time.

I'll give a pass for the regular delays on friday afternoon and sunday evening though. As far as I know, those delays are like clockwork, and we're stuck with them. (Maybe when coleman dock construction finishes, the super peak times will run more smoothly, but I'm ok with just pretending the ferry doesn't run during those times, cause I don't want to be there)

> I was just asking my wife the other day, "I don't mind high gas taxes per se, but for having some of the highest fuel taxes in the country, why is this highly-trafficked road such a piece of shit? They haven't paved it since we moved here."

Suburbs in the US have too much roads per capita (thanks to SFH obsession), you'll end up with this issue almost no matter how much taxes you raise.

Yes 100%. I’m not familiar with Washington state specifically but if you Google “induced demand” you’ll see why building more lanes and repaving them doesn’t really solve the problem.

I’ve heard of this and I’m skeptical of this narrative. And then being applied in pretty much any infrastructure. Unchecked.

It’s a great way to build nothing and leave the next generation without good infrastructure.

American cities are infested with lack of spirit that led to huge infrastructure projects in post-world war between 1945-1980.

If you talk about building anything new in SF Bay Area, you’ll be met with contempt.

The Bay Area is a dense region with earthquakes and it’s share of NIMBYs which complicates planning but they’re still opening four new stations next year as part of the Central Subway.

I’d certainly like to see a lot more infrastructure projects but building more lanes on highways is not actually the solution according to the vast majority of urban planners. Try visiting cities that went all in on highways. For example, here in Bangkok they’ve been investing a ton into the metro systems (MRT and BTS) because even after covering the city in highways the traffic doesn’t move in many areas.

I see you deleted your other comment where you said I’d clearly never left the United States. It’s a bizarre thing to assume about someone you’ve never met who has spent six months in European and Asian cities this year. Next time read the content of what is written instead of inventing things.

Michigan solved their shitty road problem: they created a state insurance fund that you could file claims against if a pot hole tore up your car. Some of their pot holes were (and I assume still are) more like craters.

I moved back home to Indiana in 2005 and don't miss the shitty weather or roads.

New York State here.

Some of the highest property and income taxes in exchange for

- shitty expensive roads

- just "meh" state university

- the worst subway I saw in any country (and there were a few)

and I can keep whinging for another half an hour.

You’re saying NYC has the worst subway? If so, you’re seriously taking it for granted.

It’s the only subway I’m aware of with two sets of tracks so it can run 24 hours even while maintenance is performed usually. It’s better than basically any other subway in America as a start and certainly better than many others as well.

That said, the United States is clearly terrible at public transport overall.

Stony Brook, Binghamton and the publicly funded colleges at Cornell provide excellent educations, and that’s disregarding the historical excellence of the CUNY schools. I’ll grant you the subways though.

Good point, it is rarely talked about how we increase efficiency.

I wish there was a better way to inject free market competition into the government. Government contracts seem to also favor inefficiency and poor implementation.

Something I’ve been thinking on lately, if anyone has resources on this I would love to read them.

Journalists should be holding governments accountable. Just the way Carreyrou (WSJ) single handedly brought down Theranos, I want journalists to go after government corruption and high impact inefficiencies. Notice how NYTimes and the like are not interested in actual journalism of this sorts. Government is a de facto monopoly and we need 10x more eyes on it than anyone else. There needs to be mechanisms for firing bad actors from high up positions.

Instead, the focus is always on increasing taxes. As a liberal, I want my taxes to go into exceptional and super high quality services that even the Scandinavians would envy. Otherwise, I will vote for lower taxes and that could mean vote for republicans. Our governments suck so much.

The government has become pay to play for journalists. Piss the government off and your not allowed into press briefings anymore.

Some dedicated investigative journalism group could do it, but any larger media company cannot.

I could see folks on YouTube doing a good job of it?

>I wish there was a better way to inject free market competition into the government

it's called immigration, people move to states/nations with the best functioning governments if they are allowed free movement. Historically voting with your feet has been the best way to change government. See Illinois and it's massive budget shortfall due to people leaving the state

also look at the Soviet Union which needed border security to keep people IN. The exact opposite situation that the US has, which is that millions of people want to live here through any means necessary

In my cynical view within the US, it's often more like locusts destroying their environment and moving on e.g. the Californian exodus to other western states that is negatively regarded by most people born & raised in those states.

People vote for crap politicians and policies that lead to issues noted in the OP, then go somewhere else and do it again - watching it first-hand in my state over the past decade.

> See Illinois and it's massive budget shortfall due to people leaving the state

Does this really make them think of changing stuff, or will they just increase taxes and try get more money? I mean, most governments will do the latter before fixing the issue (they don't want to admit the issue is with them...)

[NOTE] not a US citizen, so cant don't know much about US politics

Illinois budget problems are due primarily to pension promises made decades ago. The current state government is reasonably well run, for the most part.

If you look at the 2020 Census data, the Chicago metro area grew slightly while the rural areas and small towns lost population. The state saw a growth in high earners that pay lots of taxes, and a loss in lower income folks that pay relatively low taxes.

Since you mention politics: Illinois will send 1 fewer person to the US Congress next year. Currently, there are 13 Democrats and 5 Republicans from Illinois. After the elections next year, there are almost certainly going to be 14 Democrats and 3 Republicans. Knowing that might help understand some of the criticism…

We should all be for greater efficiency of government. But ... is WA actually less efficient than other states? If so, how and why?

In terms of overall tax burden, until now WA has been pretty middle of the road (ranked 24 and 27 out 50 in two estimates). https://taxfoundation.org/publications/state-local-tax-burde... https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...

The burden has been middle of the road thanks to the income tax ban. It’s also resulted in the state pursuing taxes even worse than income tax, in terms of regressivity and who they target.

None of those issues (with the possible exception of roads, depending on which roads you mean) are state-level problems. I live in a smaller locale in Washington and these Seattle-area laments are not problems here.

Washington has one of the best universities in the country, excellent secondary education, and is home to two of the largest tech companies in the world. It’s a shining example of American excellence to the world, and you think people will leave because of capital gains? This is silly.

Then campaign for election. The democratic experiment failed because people believe the government is a separate entity from them. Once you get involved you will see how complicated everything actually is. It turns out that people vote and do things purely from belief, regardless of if it's wrong. Therefore good policy gets labeled "leftist" or "conservative", and the private interests that profit from the chaos know how to prey on beliefs far better than you can.

Think about the consequences of what you said. We can never know unless we get involved. It is too complex. So the door for criticism is shut and only the people inside the government can possibly know the intricacies and therefore have the right to criticize. This is also a classic defeatist perspective - we can never fix this, it is too complicated.

What's chadzone?

Pretty sure they're referencing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest

Seattle is not Washington State. I invite you to visit the Methow Valley. I will buy you a beer.

I just googled Methow Valley. Breathtaking. I'll take your offer.

the same goes for CA as well.

people will also be leaving due to lord inslee's neverending "emergency powers"

Inslee has improved his margin in his 3 statewide elections so clearly the more WA citizens see of him the more they like him. His COVID response was excellent and the best in the country, IMHO.

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