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Comment by poetically | Hacker News Reader

You're correct. NFTs are unenforceable certificates of ownership for publicly available digital assets (at least as they are used currently). It's possible to make NFTs that connect to real world activities like tickets for concerts and whatnot but no one has done that yet or at least I haven't heard of it yet.

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Maybe the simplest way to explain NFTs is to compare them to casino chips: "if you have a casino chip and that casino goes out of business, your chip will most likely be worthless"

Say you take 10 grand to Bob's Casino in Las Vegas, buy chips and turn them into 100 grand at blackjack. You put the chips in your bag and go home to sleep because you're pretty drunk. Bob's Casino burns down overnight and Bob announces it he now bankrupt and going out of business. Your 100 grand in chips are now worthless.

The top answer for "are casino chips legal tender?" on Google is Because casino chips are not legal tender, they are not legally transferable. That doesn't mean some people don't try to exchange them for cash or chips at rival casinos. Although the practice was once popular in Las Vegas, the government stepped in to prevent money laundering and counterfeiting.

The U.S. dollar is the global reserve currency because it is backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. Government and people have confidence the U.S. will last. Bob's Casino chips are back by Bob.

NFT's are backed by who?

Comparison to casinos makes sense. Currently cryptocurrencies are mostly used for speculation (basically gambling) and money laundering. There is no real economic activity happening on blockchains.

According to the current IRS definition of cryptocurrencies, that people filing taxes have to "check off," frequent flier miles, grocery store coupons, and even the venerable blue chip stamp books, are crypto.

I understand and agree that a lot of cryptoscams dominate headlines, but there, but most money laundering, terrorist and drug financing worldwide is in USD $100 bills. Crypto is a rounding error.

As the de facto exchange currency of the world I agree that dollars finance crimes.

Define "real economic behavior".

I don't see it as any different than buying and selling stock, unless you also consider that to not be real economic behavior.

There's also loans and interest earning activities.

Speculation is not real economic activity. There are no actual goods produced and exchanged in the process.

Who is the Mona Lisa "backed by"?

Curious how nfts are any different from qr codes in some ways.

They're not. The difference is that if the QR code was public and associated with some specific public key then it would be exactly like an NFT. The blockchain enthusiasts are confused about the economic and cryptographic aspects, they're orthogonal concerns.

The NFL is doing this

https://www.ticketmaster.com/promo/wpbgpv

I can't access the site. I get the following message: You don't have permission to access /promo/wpbgpv on this server.

Weird, here's a screenshot to the text on the page (they disable copy/paste so I couldn't just include it originally)

https://imgur.com/a/8HZtpyp

Are people buying them?

People are buying tickets to the event, the NFT is not (currently?) sold standalone, but I guess you could say people are buying them?

It's a neat idea, but I'm not sure what the point of block chain does for anyone here. Am I ever going to sell my commemorative virtual NFL ticket? To who? Everyone who was at the game got one. No one who didn't attend the game would want it.

Dirtybird Flight Club is a new (Oct 2021) NFT project, backed by the Dirtybird record label, that has held multiple free DJ events exclusively for NFT holders. So yes they connect to real world activities, and yes they are enforceable.

What exactly is being enforced?

Don't own an NFT, can't attend the show.

How does the NFT ensure you can attend the show? Surely the bouncer can just tell you you're not getting in, or let in the DJs friends?

How does a bank ensure you can withdraw your money? Surely the teller can just raid your account and give your cash to his/her friends.

I don't think anything can 100% prevent illegal activity, but eventually someone who abuses their power will get caught and be removed.

I think the posters you're responding to are asking the following: what does an NFT provide here that any other identifier doesn't? They could just say you need to have an ID with your name on it. Is the point that would not be private? And so they could fix that by just sending you a long random string and forcing you to show that? But then is the issue in that case that that string could get duplicated multiple times and so if you had an NFT you could essentially guarantee that this private identifier is simultaneously transferable, but still effectively unique?

These are legitimate questions and I'm just trying to understand.

The OP said NFTs were "unenforceable", I disagreed. That was the extent of it -- I didn't claim they do anything another identifier can't. A physical ticket is enforceable, isn't it?

The location of the NFTs (what wallets they reside in) is public knowledge on the blockchain. The enforcement part comes by proving you are the owner of one of those wallets. Can someone steal your ID, or your phone with a wallet on it, sure, but as I said earlier, nothing is 100% resistant to illegal activity.

I'm pretty sure that the OP didn't mean literally unenforceable, but more that an NFT is no more enforceable than any other mechanism. In the end someone has to stand there and verify it and make a decision. They could use any number of methods that (may) be equally as good. In other words, why would one choose NFTs over any other method?

Anyway I don't want to get into that. I would still appreciate answers to my questions (here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29363960 ) in case someone here is feeling charitable.

The teller has a camera over his/her shoulder, and [at least here] to extract the money you must go with your credit card and type a PIN, so the computer can verify it's you.

Banks hate competition, so they ensure the teller is not stealing money from the client.

Bouncers are watched by cameras too. And if they don't allow in legitimate ticket holders (unless incapacitated, abusive, etc), they get removed from the job. The owner of the nightclub can't risk his business being sued, or fined, or losing business from event promoters who receive multiple complaints of denied entry at that specific venue.

The credit card/PIN combo sounds great until someone walks into the bank and says their wallet was stolen, or even, that you died last week and presents a forged death certificate. The point is every system has a failure point if someone is determined enough. NFTs can prove digital presence in a specific wallet, they can't actually prove who owns the wallet. No crypto asset can do that, which is why many people have gotten tricked into giving up their private key or recovery phrase.

Here in Argentina, if you go to the bank and claim your wallet was stolen, they will not give you the money. IIRC you must call the bank, and they will send a week later a replacement of your card, and another day a new PIN written in paper that you must change in a ATM, so the thief must intercept both. Anyway, the PIN for the ATM is different of the PIN for the teller, so it's not so easy. And the teller will ask also for the national ID card, that is also difficult to forge.

In case of death, the bank ask for some papers signed by a judge that says you are the official heir, and they will check in the national death registry. No way they will believe in a piece of paper.

I don't claim it's impossible, but in both cases there is a lot of paperwork to ensure it's difficult.

Because at that point you can simply issue a ticket.

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