Hacker News Reader

Comment by zz865 | Hacker News Reader

The real problem is too many people in Western USA buying too much stuff they dont need.

Actually curious, what items are people in the Western USA buying that the east coast is not? Why not single out the Eastern USA here?

West Coast is closer to Asia, but also look at how many ports you have available on the east coast vs the west. You also have the Mississippi and gulf region ports. A lot of the west coast is either rugged coastline, environmentally protected, or isolated from infrastructure so the goods coming from Asia have fewer options.

If only the East coast weren't so darn to get to by boat from Asia?

True the East coast buys too much crap too, but doesn't have the same population growth and the ports aren't backed up like CA is.

1. The population growth is minimal and not the factor here. There are still far more people on the east coast when you include the south: https://www.census.gov/popclock/data_tables.php?component=gr...

2. Much of the stuff that comes through western ports are coming to the east coast. Things being shipped from China/Japan/etc are usually brought across the US as far as I'm aware.

The east coast is serviced by west coast ports. Where do you think the shipping is from?

Well I live near Newark and currently there are a bunch of boats there that came from Asia in a month, via Suez & Panama. Its much more efficient than trucking across the whole country.

https://www.myshiptracking.com/vessels/pelican-mmsi-63601548... https://www.myshiptracking.com/vessels/gudrun-maersk-mmsi-22... https://www.myshiptracking.com/vessels/ever-lovely-mmsi-5630...

West coast ports likely move cargo from Asia onto trains destined for much of the central US, which avoids canal fees and bottlenecks, as well as wasted time backtracking.

Is that a common occurrence or is it specifically happening because of the backup on west coast ports? Or is it even part of a bigger macro trend not related to east vs west coast consumption?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/east-coast-ports-get-more-shipp...

> It's much more efficient than trucking across the whole country.

I don't think this checks out on a time perspective. 15 days to get to CA = 15 days for the trucking route, or air. I think both get there under 15 days. Fuel efficiency, maybe, I'd need to do more research. And it seems like the bigger factor is not final destination but the other stops of the shipper, e.g going and dropping in Europe for the Suez.

See section 3.1 here for timing being quicker to truck: https://guidedimports.com/shipping-from-china-to-us/

Actually glad I went on this journey for some learnings along the way, but I guess the point here is that west coast consumption levels have nothing to do with this supply chain issue. I live near you too FWIW, not in this for defending my own west coast dog in this fight, but more to try and see why you were so quick to jump on west coast consumption!

No its not new. The Bayonne Bridge was raised just to allow the new bigger boats from China to get to Newark docks. https://skyrisecities.com/news/2020/03/time-lapse-condenses-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonne_Bridge#Roadbed-raising...

See the linked article: the volume increasing is a trend; old but rising of late. COVID is certainly making it a more favorable route as well.

Either way, you're not responding to the original point: east vs west consumption has nothing to do with the trend

I presume via Suez or Panama, not and.

But there are a number of container ships that are bigger than Panamax (the largest size that can fit through the Panama Canal). They can't make it to the East Coast from Asia without going around South America, or else going through Suez.

And: "More efficient than trucking"? You could send them across the country on a train, instead of on a truck...

There are boats coming from both sides, Suez and Panama. Each boat comes via the Suez or Panama.

When people on the East coast but goods from China/Japan/other pacific nations, those goods typically move through west coast ports.

So the backups with LA and other ports are because of increased demand on the east coast, west coast, and everywhere in between.

That is because the west coast is closer to Asia where lot of stuff is made these days.

I think the target population you are using in your example is way too restricted. You're right but I mean lots of people all around the world are buying shit they don't need.

I'm simultaneously impressed and almost grossed out at how quickly the anti-AAPL crowd on HN pivoted so quickly because just because they decided to add some ports on these shitty machines. Had to make a quick release for the holiday season I guess!

Are you sure its the same people? For all that anti-AAPL people that hate ports there are also people that hate them for their anti-right to repair shenanigans but may not mind the ports(other laptops that are loved are also removing them) likewise there is a group of people that never cared about the ports being removed because they favored things like the increased portability or the amazing new processors that you can only get with them now. My point is that there are multiple groups on HN that may not intersect.

Like the jobs the book Bullshit Jobs referred to, I'd bet most of the cargo in these trucks is bullshit products that will end up in landfills within six months.

I understand that this is an oft-repeated meme, but what are these mountains of products that go to the landfill in six months, and who has the money to buy them?

Fast fashion, costumes, holiday decorations and props, organizational solutions, non-heirloom[0] electronics.

[0] not sure what the term of art here is, but flash drive, charger, cables, remotes, even monitors and TVs rather than designer record players, home entertainment systems etc

The word you are looking for is obsoletable.

Generally, I think it's a mistake for anyone to generalize about the purchasing habits of millions of people, but I can list a few examples of disposable merchandise:

(Imagine most of these things costing under 5-10$)

* Toys for children that break very easily (wind up toys, small non-metal cars, plushies)

* Garden equipment that breaks easily (hose buckets, nozzel adapters, hose winders, rakes)

* Battery powered appliances (Flashlights, lanterns, noise makers)

* Kitchenware (plastic cutting boards, knives, easily bendable "silverware", plastic plates)

To answer your question about who can afford to buy them: In my own experience it's people who can't afford to buy better made, more expensive products. If you've ever, say, bought very cheap pair of earbuds or charging cable, and had it die in a month, that is the sort of product in question.

It might make more logical sense to "buy right, instead of buying twice", but there are times where someone is either in a jam, or can't afford to get the quality version.

None of this stuff remotely makes up 'half the products shipped internationally', by value or volume.

And just because something is cheap crap, it doesn't mean that it gets thrown out. I have seen a lot of crap cutlery in my life (when visiting friends), but I always see the same crap cutlery when I visit them. They keep it for years, because shitty as it is, it does what it is meant to. The only time it gets binned is when they replace it with a keep-it-for-life, quality purchase. Likewise for garden equipment. There's a lot of crap out there, and for most people, it suits their needs. They aren't professional gardeners, they only need these tools a few times a year.

I have a shitty toolkit. I'm not a carpenter, I'm not a mechanic, and it's all I need.

I think a possible clue would be to look at the products that pile up in peoples homes, but are essentially cast off or unused. Home space is a staging area for the landfill, if not an outright landfill.

And guilty as charged. I could go through my house and tell you the stuff that I shouldn't have bought, or that had a very short useful lifespan due to changing interests or buying ahead for things that I ended up not needing.

im guessing christmas presents for the most part...

David Graeber, RIP

Reply on news.ycombinator.com