Comment by blinkingled | Hacker News Reader

Comment by blinkingled | Hacker News Reader

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I actually switched from 2010 Air to X220 after the 2011 Airs came out.

Needed a Windows machine and did not like where Lion was going - with 2011 MBA I would have no choice but to run Lion and Windows with half baked support (AHCI, other minor annoyances)

The X220 fits the bill -

1) Display is good - it's IPS panel with good viewing angles and great brightness (Make sure you opt for Premium HD display)

2) Battery life is great - 6-7 hrs for regular use is no big deal at all with the normal battery. Go with 9 cell for little extra thickness and you are talking 9 hrs.

3) It is fast even with the 7200RPM HDD - resume from sleep is fastest I've seen for a Windows laptop with regular HDD and pre desktop fingerprint authentication saves you more time.

4) Legendary Thinkpad keyboard - love it!

5) Fast regular voltage i5/i7 CPUs - not undervolted ones.

6) Does not get noisy or hot even under full load - the i7 models throttle a bit more but are still great.

7) Can have 8GB RAM - big deal for me as I run VMs. Not an option with the Air.

The only issue really is the tiny trackpad. It gets the job done but is nowhere near the nice big glassy one on the Air. If you were into Linux X220 runs Ubuntu 11.04 great out of box - added benefit.

I did a search for X220 and found this:

http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-x220...

Are you serious? This doesn't look like anything that may compete with Macbook Air in my book. Not to seem too negative, but the overall design is reminiscent of old laptops from the year 2001. (Typical for PC laptop designers).

It's pig ugly, but it's not a bad design, just philosophically different to how Apple work.

Apple take their platonic ideal of design - a perfectly smooth pebble of metal and glass - and try and compromise it as little as possible in the process of making it a computer. They're amazingly good at that process, but inevitably face compromises.

Lenovo (and IBM before them) build purely for performance and let form follow function. If a bulge in the chassis means a better machine, they put the bulge in the chassis.

For example, you'll notice a VGA port on the side. Apple would consider it an unacceptably bulky legacy port. Lenovo fit it because their target market values being able to hook up to a projector without a fragile and easy to lose adapter. There are hundreds of really clever bits of design on a Lenovo, but they're all about Getting Stuff Done.

I've alternated between Mac laptops and Thinkpads for as long as I can remember, probably over a decade. They're both the best in their field by a very long way, but they're competing in very different markets based on very different design philosophies.

  > This doesn't look like anything that may compete
  > with Macbook Air in my book

  > design is reminiscent of old laptops from the year
  > 2001

1. The age of the design shouldn't necessarily say anything about how good it is. Would you claim that we should just get rid of art museums because everything in them is just 'too old?'

2. The ThinkPad was praised for it's industrial design back in it's day.

3. There are many people that prefer the ThinkPad design over the MBA unibody.

4. If the X220 surpasses the MBA in all aspected except looks, then does it really not compete in your book? Is the design of the laptop so important that you would be willing to pay more for less functionality just for your laptop to look nicer?

5. I don't quite understand how you can reply to someone saying that they went with a X220 due to features that it had that the MBA didn't (and which were important to the poster), with a "it's not even competitive because the design is not pleasing to my eyes." It comes off like this:

  poster1: I bought a NASCAR because I need to go fast for
           work.
  poster2: How could you even claim that a NASCAR is a replacement
           for a sedan?! The external looks are horrible!

The original question posed was, "any good Macbook Air alternatives?" To me, that implies lightweight, compact, and, yes, elegant. The Thinkpad doesn't appear to be any of those.

Elegant is subjective. It's better to talk about things like specs, issues, OS support, etc, and let people decide on the aesthetics themselves. Arguing over which design is more pleasing on the eye (or elegant) adds nothing to the discussion.

The original post suggesting the X220 listed a bunch of specs that it had (and that the poster needed) that the MacBook Air didn't. A response of, "Disregard that the design sucks cocks," adds nothing to the discussion even if that it your personal opinion. If someone thinks that the external looks of the laptop are important, they are not going to just blindly make the purchase based a comment on HN without personally checking it out.

The more important discussions are things like:

* X is billed as (or looks to be in the surface) a replacement for Y, but once you get it out of the showroom you'll notice issues A, B and C.

* X looks really cheap on the surface, but in my experience it's extremely durable.

* X looks really good, but doesn't run Operating System Y.

* X looks like it runs Operating System Y, until you need to use feature/hardware component Z.

Elegant is subjective.

I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who honestly believes a Thinkpad to be more elegant than a Macbook Air.

A response of, "Disregard that the design sucks cocks,"

Excuse me?

How much elegant is good enough or to what degree that is a concern is subjective. GP did not specify that elegance was the sole criteria which means he/she is probably ok with a fairly elegant machine within same ballpark of the Air - which the x220 is.

The x220 certainly ain't ugly - it is thin, lightweight and durable. Many prefer the Thinkpad design. So even if for you personally elegance may be the first/only priority without override - many people are not that obsessive when it comes to choosing a work laptop.

So the X220 is certainly a choice when you are thinking Macbook Air. The screen size falls nicely between the too small 11" and a bit too big 13.3", the CPUs are same gen, SSD is configurable etc.

So even if for you personally elegance may be the first/only priority without override

Okay, I'm genuinely curious here. What's with all the strange, reactionary posts in this thread, and mis-categorization of people? When did I say anything about elegance being my first priority? I was quite clear in my statement, yet you've skewed it in a bizarre manner.

many people are not that obsessive when it comes to choosing a work laptop

Obsessive? How about appreciative? In fact, how about any word which isn't loaded? Again, there is some strange, defensive stuff going on here.

Well nothing to be defensive about. I was responding to the question /why even bring up Think pad when it looks less elegant/. Only a somewhat obsessed person will completely ignore a laptop because it is not as good looking as the Air. Nothing wrong or loaded about that - just that it isn't what everyone will generally do. And so the response wasn't completely irrelevant, that's all.

Not defensive, but rather offended. Also, there is most certainly a lot of loaded text in your replies.

Indeed. I've been reading a lot of responses thinking the same thing.

  > > A response of, "Disregard that the design sucks cocks,"
  >
  > Excuse me?

Sorry, my (previous) 4chan roots showing through:

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/disregard-that-i-suck-cocks#.T...

My point was that the responder at the top of the thread was saying (in so many words):

  ignore all of that so-called 'content' in the parent
  post, my (subjective) ideas about the design should
  trump all of that

I understand the 'meme' and don't see how it has any place here, whatsoever.

As for your summary, I find it to be amazingly slanted toward a particular view. The X220 is truly nothing at all like the Macbook Air. I used a consumer grade Toshiba, so I have no horse in this race, but I can plainly see (from specs as well as design) that the X220 is in a significantly different category from the Air.

That's not what I was responding to. The original suggestion about the X220 was responded to by saying that the X220 isn't 'elegant' and has a design that harkens back to 2001 (which is implied to be a bad thing).

The elegance of the design alone is not enough to place it in a different category. If the argument had been that it can't be classified in the same category as the MacBook Air (with a list of reasons other than "I think that it looks ugly"), then this thread would look a lot different.

Of course in the form/looks department nothing beats the Air so far.

But for me if I can get function with form I will go with it. Sacrificing function for form is not a luxury I can afford at the moment :)

But the point is - Thinkpads are well built, the x220 is thin if not as thin, and it offers lot of functionality over the Air and even if it doesn't look as flashy it doesn't look that bad - people are used to seeing Thinkpads :)

[ I noticed you deleted the running OS X part - if anyone else was wondering - x220 can make a great hackintosh if you swapped the WiFi card - it has an empty mSATA connection if I remember correctly. Apart from that the hardware should be OS X friendly.]

> but the overall design is reminiscent of old laptops from the year 2001

The chunky black plastic is just as much a part of the Thinkpad brand as the unibody is for the Macbooks.

if it's anything like earlier x series, it's actually a cast metal base.

And the lid plastic is slightly rubberized.

Well, it's typical Thinkpad design, and Lenovo doesn't compete based on looks.

I suppose if style is the main consideration when purchasing a computer, Apple is hard to beat.

I'd have a hard time believing that style would be the main consideration if it's going to be a work laptop. Though I suppose to be fair, the OP never specified.

Style is actually a primary consideration in the design of the Thinkpad line. It's not enough to be reliable, it also has to look reliable.

People complaining about the design are often failing to correctly identify the intended user.

I actually prefer the Thinkpad design.

Well the aluminum looks nice, I too prefer the thinkpad design.

Don't get all the fuss over the apple look. To me the thinkpad looks very sharp and functional.

I'm responding here, because all the responses to this so far qualify and I don't want to single one out. I'd like to address them all.

I'd like to point out that chunky and heavy v. thin and light is not all about looking cool. A better comparison would be Thinkpad v. MBP. But since this is about alternatives to the Air, let's assume that thin & light are worth giving up some raw horsepower and perhaps some functionality.

If the form factor of the old Kaypro / Compaq luggables were around today you could pack a desktop machine's worth of power into it. If someone looking for a notebook computer was pointed toward one of those and remarked something like the above, I think we'd all agree with them.

Do you buy your laptops primarily to look at them, or to use them?

One of my clients is swapping all of their sales people out of their windows laptops and into MacBook Airs because the sales people just need office and a web browser and the airs are far more impressive looking.

I have another client where the sales people have windows laptops, but they're not allowed to bring them to client meetings, instead they have to bring their iPads.

Sometimes form _is_ more important than function.

It can be tricky. Sometimes customers get the feeling you rip them off when you show off with expensive gadgets or expensive cars.

> Sometimes form _is_ more important than function.

Agreed, I have zero problems with this statement when qualified.

From what I understand, a big part of the appeal of the MBA is that it's light and thin enough that you can basically forget that you've got it in your bag. For people who travel a lot, that's a big deal. For some users, then, the laptop's physical attributes (dimensions, etc.) are important aspects of the machine's overall usability.

you can basically forget that you've got it in your bag

Except you can't, because you're worried about crushing it, due to a relatively frail case, or you're worried about scratching it because it looks pretty.

This is why I ditched an MBA and carry around a netbook.

False dichotomy.

I wasn't trying to imply this is a strictly either-or choice. That's why I said primarily.

Carrying it about is a primary use. Arguably the primary use.

Well, that will depend on the user. In my case, I carry my laptop for probably an hour at most (round trip) and then set it down and use it for 2-3 hours at least.

Do you buy your car to look at it or drive it? Etc, etc, etc...

but if your car looks like a toilet with wheels it is no fun to drive. everything matters, function, form, feeling.

A lot of people hated the most toilet-like car I can think of, the 1998 Fiat Multipla. It still sold a whole lot, and I personally liked it. Making design pronouncements is a tricky business.

Not sure of the 2011 MBA, but Linux runs just fine on my 2010 Air. Feels a lot more responsive than OS X, but with somewhat worse battery life.

I run Linux for kernel development - having to load binary drivers is a strict no-no. So 2010 Air with its nVidia chip wasn't really a choice and when I tried nouveau wasn't really stable (still isn't - RE is hard). With 4GB RAM limit on the Air I couldn't run Linux in the VM comfortably.

For the 2011 Air - RAM is still an issue and WiFi card is another one - Broadcom is still working on getting a beta quality OSS driver out.

Compared to that x220 on Linux is very well supported.

+1 for x220

8) The nipple mouse in the middle of the keyboard means you never have to take your hands away from home row.

I've never noticed this to be an issue with mac laptops.

You've two thumbs for a reason, I never had much issue using my thumbs on the trackpad.

So true! I've just bought a Thinkpad T420 and the nipple was key in the decission. Once you get used it can't be beaten and not having it is terrible.

And the new Lenovo trackpads are also multitouch, not as good as Apple's tough.

Indeed. So awful you will never want to use it and will just use the keyboard instead ;-)

Some people love it. Like me. The pointer never feels quite so much like an extension of my brain with anything other than the nipplemouse.

The VM/RAM-Problem: We use VMs heavily and have one employee that is really happy with a MacBook AIR with 4GB RAM. On the other hand, we heavily restrict our VMs, so its more usual than not that each only has 512 MB RAM.

What do you think about the low resolution of the screen? for that reason alone i am considering the vaio z instead.

For my eyesight I find 1366x768 more comfortable for a 12.5" screen. But otherwise 1440x900 or above would be better for screen real estate.

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