Thoughts on “E-Readers” (2009)
news.ycombinator.com
news.ycombinator.com
Except technically I turned it into an Android tablet. I rooted it and overwrote the firmware with CyanogenMod v 11-20140403-NIGHTLY-encore
Of course that's very heavily out of date now. But it does what I want it to do - that is, read books. I just get lots of epubs and feed them to Moon Reader and read away.
Boy it's slow though with an Armv7 CPU with 500MB of memory. But who needs fast when all I use it for is reading one static page of text at a time?
Frankly, I'm astounded it has lasted this long - I'm especially surprised at the battery not having given up the ghost yet. I can get enough reading time to last say 4 or 5 hours in one go, but usually get drowsy enough to get to sleep well before that.
I'm waiting for the battery to finally give in - then begins the search for a replacement battery. In fact, the battery has outlasted the Nook Color charging cable, which frayed at the interface between the cable and one end. So I use a normal USB cable to charge it - which means slow charging.
A while back I looked into perhaps trying to update the version of Android on it - but by now most if not all of the Nook Color hacking sites have gone the way of the Dodo :)
It's interesting to conceive of the iPad when working up from an e-reader model rather than down from a Tablet PC like the classic HP Pavilion tx1000.
> In one year's time we'll see. 2010 should be the year paper learns of it's destiny, the year we reach a tipping point on our way towards bits from the momentum of atoms.
This is of course a prescient prediction of the iPad. But what it also reminded me of is a device that had already been shown publicly at the time: The Microsoft Courier.
Microsoft was working on a dual-screen tablet that was essentially a notebook in computer form, complete with custom OS.[1] In the end it never happened.
I mean, sure, it would be a cool bit of tech but where does it fit? I go through phases with my kindle, but somehow even after obtaining one, I've ended up with even more hardcover books in my house than I had before and it's getting ridiculous (Seriously, there are stacks of books everywhere I can see at the moment, I have maybe 800+ hardbacks around the house...).
I don't really use my Oasis.. A colour one wouldn't add to my reading experience really (I like old, heavy, 'foosty' books..) and no matter how I try, even reading entertainment fiction on a e-reader just isn't the same.. I am a fan of these devices though, don't get me wrong...
Would it replace my iPad? No.
Would it replace my kindle oasis? No.
What's it for then?
Even in color, eink devices have largely never been portrayed as an ipad replacement given their largely different use cases. It’s sounding to me like you don’t like your devices in favor of either an ipad or paper book, and while that’s okay, it doesn’t mean there’s no market for a color device.
https://onyxboox.com/boox_nova3color
I adore my Boox Note 2 -- I've been remarkably surprised by its firmware support too, they've added features and increased performance massively over time.
They're expensive though. More so than an iPad, and it technically does less despite being Android underneath, just due to the limitations of the tech itself.
I'm sure there are more uses for it, but our inability to come up with those uses does not invalidate its potential
That said, I really dislike the interface of the kindle, I like the kobo's interface slightly better (I love the pocket integration).
I could see myself use a colour e-reader for comics, for colour illustrations in books.
Most especially when used as an e-book reader (e.g., occaisionally invoking a full-screen refresh, without illumination, radios, or other processing), but even when used as a full-on tablet easily exceed a day of typical use.
e-ink offers days to weeks (with judicious use). Even with degredation, 1-2 days' usage without charging will be an option. What I've found is that charging is quite rapid, so even if short top-offs are all that are possible, those restore a large portion of total battery life.
And the device is readable in bright light / direct sunlight, again, a major benefit.
But they’re quite hopeless for textbooks with lots of images/diagrams/tables and more complex layout. Zooming and scrolling is hopeless on an e-ink screen.
I would almost never mix linear reading with those other kinds of documents so I don't need devices that handle both kinds of documents.
> The Adam is set to be the first Android device marketed to contain Pixel Qi's low-power, dual-mode display
Was it that there wasn't a market for Pixel Qi dual-mode displays?
IDK how well you can scroll a (monochrome) PDF textbook on a PineNote development unit yet, given that the eInk display driver didn't work yet last I heard. https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/high-end-e-i...
Nobody reads the whole PDF on even a large phone in landscape mode. There's a new server-side liquid PDF reflowing solution that could help solve the fixed font sizes and margin issues on mobile devices. ePub is basically just HTML, by comparison. But certain walled gardens feel like it's necessary to convert epub to mobi, rather than just integrate one of a number of existing open source e-reader apps with support for multiple document, eBook, and textbook formats.
It's quite remarkable. Expensive devices though.
A chief reason I'd selected that size was to read highly-formatted textbooks and scans of old, tiny-font articles. Three-column magazine and journal layouts are almost always highly readable without zoom, even where scan quality is imperfect.
As a Kindle Paperwhite 3rd generation owner I am sad it is true. e-newspaper/e-magazine leave very bad experience, pushing me away to resign from using it (thank God I have been on trial). I also don't understand why magazines are displayed in such horrible way on Kindle. When I have given my Kindle to a person, who on daily basis purchase a paper version of a newspaper, she said me using it is completely no-go for her, while she has no problem to read typical ebooks on my device.
I wish e-readers will evolve - to be a device that would help me learning, making notes, be a calendar and todolist instead of just only having me entertained of reading an ebook. I am basically looking forward to Kindle being an handy org-mode-like replacement. I would like to have a planner, which could synchronize with some ical/caldav calendar. I would like to have a bit better specs of device, so responsiveness of e-ink keyboard will be instant - I usually have typos thanks to low latency of the display. I would love to make notes separately from ebooks/documents - think like diary, draft notes or just stupid shopping list. I would like to find some method/methodology, which will help me go back to my quotes and in-book notes to extract from them more meaningful way. I would like to have better web-browser or some converter for HN, which will reading (and annotating) articles and comments section on HN pleasant enough. Maybe I am silly, but I believe it is all possible to achieve that in a form of e-ink reader.
iPad can have all of those things right at the moment, but I don't see myself (yet) as a owner of tablet with a LCD screen. Perhaps, I will afford it, because I am already sold on how good VoiceOver on macOS is and I suppose Kindles will never deliver anything close to what Apple can bring in terms of accessibility features. However, I still keep fingers crossed for competitors like ReMarkable [0] or Supernote.
The RK3566 should be powerful enough for all the above.
I want the experience of paper, most importantly of which is the e-ink screen and feel of writing. I do not want another LCD/LED screen device.
The biggest points for me are
* E-Ink (or similar screen)
* Very low lag when writing (Remarkable 2 is at ~21ms which is incredible)
* Long Battery (Cause it's E-Ink...)
* Fast Refresh Rate - The kindle refresh rate when flipping through pages is so slow. It's very frustrating to navigate on for non indexed pages.
* Enhance any supported capability with digital notes (books, emails, pdfs etc). Anything the device supports should become an extended surface for hand written notes and markup from any other device or access method (web, phone etc).
I think Apple has the biggest chance here since they are so focused on integration across services, products, and devices. They have their own email client, their own messaging platform, their own browser, their own book store. They can work to enhance any of these.They already have with iPad. But an e-ink device is very much not meant as an iPad. It really is digital paper (a common term, not trying to say I came up with it) but in a preserving way.
Kobo finally got their act together and moved their manufacturing back to Taiwan and started releasing neat devices including a new a 10 inch note taking devices.
Some of the old manufacturers like Supernote have now become OEMs. There are eink phones, eink mobile readers, remarkable and even the new upcoming pine reader, which looks like a bigme device with custom board.
2021: https://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/demand-for-ebooks-o...
2018: https://observer.com/2018/11/ebook-sales-decline-independent...
And I'd say that all the devices coming out now do not have the name recognition of Nooks or the PRST1, let alone the Kindle. At least in the US market; things might be different in Asia.
In India, physical books have always been a lot more popular (and still are) since books are a lot cheaper than in the US (printed on very crappy paper though). But that's also meant that there's a lot more room for ebooks to grow into. The US might be, what, a 30-35% ebooks share at this point? In India, its less than 5% but growing very strongly.
BUT this is not accompanied by ereader sales. Majority of ebooks are read by folks on their phones. (I suspect China has been seeing something similar too with the proliferation of online reading platforms.)
Buy a used one. I have two (an extra because I like the K3, and its successors have all been inferior).
I had the first Paperwhite (as well as the big old DXG), and was half a year into the Gen 10's Paperwhite; the jump between those two was dwarfed by the improvements of the Gen 11. This does especially hold true if you read at night.
I got the Signature Edition which does a great job of adjusting that marvelous backlight in a set it and forget it kind of way. They both have Type C charging, but the SE also gets wireless charging (works great with my Samsung one).
Responsiveness is also greatly improved; I don't really miss my buttons of old anymore.
Smaller devices (6--8") are at or below $200, particularly if you're willing to go back a model rev or two. Large devices are more expensive (~$800 for a 13.3" screen), but permit 2-up reading of much content and full-size (e.g., unzoomed) viewing of even large-format or small-print materials.
Any newer articles on these since then?
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29299593
- There's no one thing that an emissive-display tablet does which some other device does not do better.
- For virtually all productivity roles, a laptop with a keyboard, even a low-end one, is superior.
- For specific capture and communications roles, I'd prefer disconnected / wired-only or specifically dedicated device: camera, audio recorder, dumbphone. These are small enough and capabilities sufficiently high that in most cases the additional-device concern isn't significant. The improved security and privacy situation is also a major concern.
There's one exception: in portrait mode, a tablet is far better for reading texts than the landscape display of all laptops and most desktops. (A sufficiently large, high-resolution desktop display becomes useful for either 1-up or 2-up reading.) But, even here, the emissive display typically has a lower resolution and higher battery consumption than an e-ink display would.
Since February of this year I've been using an Onyx BOOX Max Lumi, a 13.3" Android-based ebook-reader / tablet. For reading it is in fact delicious. As a tablet ... it's actually somewhat better than I'd prefer (the distractiosn are too close at hand). It's also quiet good for podcasts (large flat surface gives good speaker response).
In particular, Onxy don't run their own bookstore, there's no "ecosystem" (a/k/a captive market) the company is trying to corral users into. Virtually all content is sideloaded or downloaded. The bookreader is quite good (with some limitations), as is the notetaking app (handwritten notes), not something I'd through I'd make much use of, but that I have.
I'd considered a number of other devices, and emphasized:
- Not being captured by a specific market (eliminates Amazon, Nook, Kobo).
- Not being tracked (eliminates Amazon, Nook, Kobo, most Android and iOS devices).
- Sufficient storage (eliminates reMarkable).
- Multiple format support.
- Large display size.
- High-quality display.
My main issues are:
- Organising content is tedious. That's pretty much par for the course with such devices and apps. If you're planning on managing a large library (100s to 1,000s or more items), the onboard tools and all available apps I've found to date are sorely wanting. I'd really like a bibliographic + worfklow management suite. I don't have one.
- Some interactions are cumbersome. As with any touch-based device, distinguishing actions (clicks, drags, actually writing on or selecting content, etc.) are ambiguous, and the software often confuses these. Again, par for the course in my experience.
- Android itself imposes severe limitations. I'm not a fan of the OS, but it's the best of a bunch of bad choices. I'm looking at the upcoming Linux tablets, though those will face a long uphill UI/UX slog to produce useable and intuitive tools.
- Ebook formats themselves still have much shaking out to do. I actually strongly prefer PDFs (or DJVU), that is, explicitly-laid-out formats, to reflowable ones (ePub, .mobi, HTML), and in most cases PDFs are reasonably readable. Response reading scanned documents (rather than rendered ones) can be slow. And in cases, publishers and typesetters make bone-headed decisions about layout and formatting. (Less is more, stick to standards.)
- Colour might occasionally be nice. There are colour e-ink devices available (as with virtually all aspects of displays, this is entirely at the control and whim of the patent holder), though the effect is muted. Price premium is fairly modest, but only 8" displays seem supported (good for comics and narrative text, less so for textbooks and journal articles).
- My one post-purchase regret is that the subsequent rev of the device has doubled onboard storage to 128 GB. In all seriousness, I could use the extra storage, and the Max Lumi's 64 GB was a massive advantage over the extremely pinched 16 GB offered by the reMarkable, an utterly inexcusable limitation. That said, 64 GB has been sufficient so far.
I certainly don't trust the OS or its application ecosystem. I try to acknowledge that to the maximum extent with my usage --- in this case, I've kept virtually all external account access disconnected from the device, with the exception of those associated with document curation itself, for the most part.
I've some modest monitoring to detect any unwanted phoning home, and have seen nothing. That said, proving a negative is difficult.
If there were a sufficiently capable non-Android alternative affording e-book and note-taking capabilities (I'd even be willing to sacrifice a web browser), I'd be leaning strongly toward it. Purism's PureOS announcement today is of interest, though I'm pretty sure the Onyx devices aren't covered.
I'm hoping that more e-ink devices, including Linux-native capable ones, will emerge. I suspect they will.
For now ... at least it's a devil I know. I've used Android devices, largely unhappily, for over a decade. It's the least worst option.