Comment by moate | Hacker News Reader

Comment by moate | Hacker News Reader

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Glad SOMEONE rolled out the "Gay guys always just be fucking!" canard as a reason for checks notes higher reporting of college degrees. I mean we were all thinking it, right?

Also, you're very much failing to control here: Everyone in your example was in college! Even those hetero dudes you're talking about were likely going to wind up with college degrees.

Also, why wouldn't the gay men be having sex with other gay men? This call out seems weird. Who else would they have sex with? What does this detail provide to your story other than a sense that you seemed to have mentally noted how much sex, and with whom, other people were having?

Assuming your hypothesis is right (and not just a continuation of a stereotype the gay community is constantly dealing with), you have any links to studies that show that people who have more sex get more college degrees? I've got this from 2 seconds of google that would point in literally the opposite direction: https://www.chronicle.com/article/study-finds-more-educated-...

One hypothesis is that the gay men have more time-efficient sex lives, whereas straight men waste much more time attempting to woo women.

I wouldn't believe that this is a reasonable hypothesis. The implication of this would be that straight men are spending _so much_ time trying to get laid that it hinders their level of education as a demographic, and this just seems to be absurd on its face.

What is the mechanism by which the average straight man is precluded from higher education via his pursuit of sex? He spends less time on homework and gets worse grades? He spends less time in class or lecture in favor of pursuing sex? He's so sex-driven that pursuing education just isn't even a thought to him? Other factors along these lines?

It just doesn't seem to seem plausible that the pursuit of sex would take up such disproportionately large amounts of time for straight men vs gay men that it would lead to this kind of a difference. It seems like straight men would have to be neglecting comically large portions of their lives in favor of the pursuit of sex for this to be plausible.

I suppose it's possible that straight men end up precluded from pursuing higher education due to it being easier for them to start an unplanned family, but I'm skeptical of that as well.

> I wouldn't believe that this is a reasonable hypothesis. The implication of this would be that straight men are spending _so much_ time trying to get laid that it hinders their level of education as a demographic, and this just seems to be absurd on its face.

As someone with quite a few gay friends and am straight - can say that my life would be 100x better if I was gay. All my gay male friends agree. Straight men have it incredibly difficult as far as dating investment goes. You can spend all your time in the gym, work, studying, improving personality, etc. and it can go entirely unrecognized by women for some minor reason like you’re not tall enough (not tall == short, mentality is very prevalent). On top of this - you’re gonna have a real bad time on dating apps whereas gay men will literally meet up with anyone who is at least in modestly good physical shape (even then - plenty of those who will meet up with you). After that, it’s up to you to figure out how to lock it down if that’s what you want. Whereas a straight man can receive nothing for years online - I mean I’ve never been on a date in my entire life from online interactions!

If I was gay, my life would’ve been much better. I spent so many hours out of my day doing things just for women for so long and still do. Whereas I would not have to do this for gay men because I would’ve been accepted from the start - and I could’ve gone on doing more while feeling good about being accepted instead of going on and doing these things feeling rejection the entire time.

I can say that at least from my gay friends - it seems like the community isn’t perfect but at least they accept you. And at least there’s a community - holy shit.

Gay men may have an easier time obtaining casual sex in areas where gay sexual practices aren't prohibited by law. But, I don't think this advantage necessarily translates to a higher probability of establishing long-term relationships. There are a lot of other considerations for successful long-term same-sex relationships that don't apply as much to casual sex, e.g. whether the families of both partners accept the relationship, whether the community the couple lives in is LGBT-friendly, and whether both partners are out in the first place.

Maintaining health/fitness, focusing on work/education, and developing a strong personality are all actions that have a high return on investment in areas of life outside of dating. Anyone would benefit from doing all of these things regardless of how necessary they are to obtain casual sex.

> But, I don't think this advantage necessarily translates to a higher probability of establishing long-term relationships.

At least in my circle - it does. The men who want to have long term relationships can and do. The men who don't - don't. At the very least - all parties can have their carnal desires satisfied at a moment's notice without any judgement.

> Maintaining health/fitness, focusing on work/education, and developing a strong personality are all actions that have a high return on investment in areas of life outside of dating. Anyone would benefit from doing all of these things regardless of how necessary they are to obtain casual sex.

I think to some extent they translate but I'd say that for most straight men - they really only do it because they want a partner. If they had the choice then they wouldn't bother. While some of these translate in other areas - they don't translate as strongly as in dating. Higher income/NW doesn't mean shit if you have to spend all your life alone. Health/fitness just means you live longer alone. For the overwhelming majority of men - they rather die than be alone (one of the reasons why the suicide rate among men is so much higher than for women). This is where they are very different from women who are completely content with dying alone.

LGBT suicide rates are significantly higher than those of heterosexual people:

> Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men are at even greater risk for suicide attempts, especially before the age of 25. A study of youth in grades 7-12 found that lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth were more than twice as likely to have attempted suicide as their heterosexual peers. Some risk factors are linked to being gay or bisexual in a hostile environment and the effects that this has on mental health.

https://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/suicide-violence-prevention.ht...

While there are gay men who have successful long-term relationships, there are also many gay men who encounter substantial cultural and legal obstacles that interfere with their day-to-day lives and their ability to establish long-term relationships. Not every gay man gets to enjoy the same positive outcomes as the ones in your social circle.

The Bay Area (mentioned in your HN profile description) is a very LGBT-friendly location, and the people in your circle show the potential of gay men in a more accepting environment. Your opinion seems more reasonable in that context. But, LGBT people in the Bay Area are not representative of the LGBT population at large, many of whom face challenges specific to their sexual orientation that decrease their quality of life, with ramifications much greater than casual sex.

Is it not true that gay men are on average more sexually active than heterosexual men?

Is it not true that I cited a study that shows that people who are more educated have less sex and therefor trips this hypothesis up?

That could still be true overall even if a subset of that group behaved differently, right?

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